From canadavintage at hotmail.com  Fri Nov  2 23:05:33 2007
From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (CanadaVintage)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 19:05:33 -0800
Subject: [Growwine] FFD in Lanaudiere.
References: <24233373.1193761365295.JavaMail.?@fh122.dia.he.tucows.com><4727B0A8.22634.102D487@midmp.abacom.com>
	<BAY113-DAV15519E201C910662DD9BBCA1930@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY113-DAV27A2FFCB3A89FEA4D813CA18D0@phx.gbl>

I just was told that the area received 169-177 frost free days this year.

Has anyone else in Lanaudiere or other parts of Quebec seen this kind of
seasonal change?

Our site was hit with frost on October 28th.
Anthony Carone
www.caronewines.com




From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca  Fri Nov  2 21:11:07 2007
From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 21:11:07 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] FFD in Lanaudiere.
References: <24233373.1193761365295.JavaMail.?@fh122.dia.he.tucows.com><4727B0A8.22634.102D487@midmp.abacom.com><BAY113-DAV15519E201C910662DD9BBCA1930@phx.gbl>
	<BAY113-DAV27A2FFCB3A89FEA4D813CA18D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <003a01c81db6$9c1f75e0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>

Ridiculous here in Peterborough.  Our cherry and maple trees still have 
green leaves, grass is still growing, dandelions growing yet...

Wish we hadn't lost the electric fence at Humphreys vineyard on September 
14th!

Forecast seems more like normal, at least it is now getting cold at night.

Lardy

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

http://www.littlefatwino.com/


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "CanadaVintage" <canadavintage at hotmail.com>
To: "CanadaVintage" <canadavintage at hotmail.com>; <midmp at abacom.com>; 
"growing Wine in Cold Climates" <growwine at littlefatwino.com>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 11:05 PM
Subject: [Growwine] FFD in Lanaudiere.


I just was told that the area received 169-177 frost free days this year.

Has anyone else in Lanaudiere or other parts of Quebec seen this kind of
seasonal change?

Our site was hit with frost on October 28th.
Anthony Carone
www.caronewines.com



_______________________________________________
Growwine mailing list
Growwine at littlefatwino.com
http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine 


From littlefatwino at trytel.net  Sat Nov  3 10:29:14 2007
From: littlefatwino at trytel.net (Larry Paterson)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 10:29:14 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Join us for the 2008 Cold Climate Grape & Wine
	Conference!
Message-ID: <005601c81e26$76ca5060$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>

Broadcast Email Template-- Original Message ----- 
From: mngrapesamo at arcstone.com 
To: littlefatwino at trytel.net 
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 11:37 PM
Subject: Join us for the 2008 Cold Climate Grape & Wine Conference!


        
             
           

                       
                              MGGA Website   |     
                         November 02, 2007   
                       
                       
                       
                 
                 
                  Minnesota Grape Growers Association

                  Cordially invites you to the

                  2008 Cold Climate Conference

                  Northern Viticulture - Creating Regional Identity

                  Holiday Inn Select, Bloomington Minnesota

                  February 14th to 16th, 2008

                  Click here to download the conference brochure:


--------------------------------------------------------------

                  
                 
                       
                       Minnesota Grape Growers Association
                        Minnesota Grape Growers Association Conference Support
                        Reply to: nrwalsh1 at yahoo.com
                        Phone: 651-264-0466   Fax: 651-264-0466  
                 
                 
            
             
     
              This email was generated from the Minnesota Grape Growers Association AMO messaging system.
            It is official MGGA communications.
             
     
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From canadavintage at hotmail.com  Sat Nov  3 22:59:57 2007
From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (CanadaVintage)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:59:57 -0800
Subject: [Growwine] Organic Wine article in vines Mag
References: <24233373.1193761365295.JavaMail.?@fh122.dia.he.tucows.com><4727B0A8.22634.102D487@midmp.abacom.com><BAY113-DAV15519E201C910662DD9BBCA1930@phx.gbl><BAY113-DAV27A2FFCB3A89FEA4D813CA18D0@phx.gbl>
	<003a01c81db6$9c1f75e0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <BAY113-DAV7A619C09D45BA3F29C1FCA18E0@phx.gbl>

Picked up a copy of Nov/Dec 07 VINES and just read an really interesting
article on our friend, and my personally favorite wine guru/mentor, Larry
Paterson.

I was also out today at the Vins et Fromages, a three-day event des vins et
fromages du Qu?bec put on by the Soci?t? des Alcools de Qu?bec for the
second year in Complexe Desjardins. It was an interesting show.

We got our first real hard hit of Frost last night.  Everything on our site
has gone dormant.

Back to reading...


Anthony Carone
www.caronewines.com







----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Paterson" <littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca>
To: "growing Wine in Cold Climates" <growwine at littlefatwino.com>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] FFD in Lanaudiere.


> Ridiculous here in Peterborough.  Our cherry and maple trees still have
> green leaves, grass is still growing, dandelions growing yet...
>
> Wish we hadn't lost the electric fence at Humphreys vineyard on September
> 14th!
>
> Forecast seems more like normal, at least it is now getting cold at night.
>
> Lardy
>
> Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
> (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)
>
> http://www.littlefatwino.com/
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "CanadaVintage" <canadavintage at hotmail.com>
> To: "CanadaVintage" <canadavintage at hotmail.com>; <midmp at abacom.com>;
> "growing Wine in Cold Climates" <growwine at littlefatwino.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 11:05 PM
> Subject: [Growwine] FFD in Lanaudiere.
>
>
> I just was told that the area received 169-177 frost free days this year.
>
> Has anyone else in Lanaudiere or other parts of Quebec seen this kind of
> seasonal change?
>
> Our site was hit with frost on October 28th.
> Anthony Carone
> www.caronewines.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Growwine mailing list
> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
>
> _______________________________________________
> Growwine mailing list
> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
>


From gtking at sympatico.ca  Sun Nov  4 08:59:32 2007
From: gtking at sympatico.ca (Gary King)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 08:59:32 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Fw:  Thornless Blackberries
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP03538B9E6AE9C3CC76C88EA98F0@CEZ.ICE>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Gary King 
To: growwine at kawartha.com 
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:50 AM
Subject: Fw: [Growwine] Thornless Blackberries


If Ron O is on this list; I'd be happy to connect re the Blackberry canes. 

gtking at sympatico.ca

Regards,  Gary K
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Gary King 
To: Growing Wine in Cold Climates 
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 5:46 AM
Subject: [Growwine] Thornless Blackberries


Thanks Ron, for the advice and the offer.   I'll be sure to come by for a visit in the Fall. 
I seem to find the commercial ones very 'bland' ( and expensive ) ; the ones that grow in my yard along the fence are quite acidic but tasty. 

Looking forward to getting some bb's fruiting again.

Gary K


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Gary,
You may just have to ignore them. My thornless bb didn't do much for the 
first 10yrs. I think I got less than a # on a 100sqft patch in those years. 
Last year they were crazy -picked about 30# and left the rest which was 
probably just as much. And this year looks to be the same. Wish the rest of 
my f.trees and bushes got as lucky. I don't do anything with them, no 
fertilizer, pruning, trimming down, nothing -they essentially grow wild at 
the back property. Not sure what variety they are but I don't care for them 
that much. They are big, black and juicy but don't have that much flavor in 
my opinion -similar to the store bought varieties I think.
I live near London Ont., so if you're by this way in the fall you can help 
yourself to some canes if you like.

Ron O


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From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca  Mon Nov  5 20:49:18 2007
From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 20:49:18 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Atmospheres pressure in cider
Message-ID: <00a801c82017$404305d0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>

Question for cider makers

What is the ideal number of atmospheres of pressure for a sparkling apple cider?  I have interested my son in making cider and it will be my first time as well.  We intend to use standard beer bottles and a capper, and to use the encapsulated yeast to induce the secondary fermentation in-bottle.  I know that 4 grams of sugar per litre will produce one atmosphere, just need to know if there is a standard number of atmospheres for sparkling cider similar to champagne style sparkling wine (which is between five and six atmospheres).

thanks  in advance

Lardy

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

http://www.littlefatwino.com/

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From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca  Mon Nov  5 20:52:01 2007
From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 20:52:01 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Is wine only made from grapes
Message-ID: <00b301c82017$a1509a90$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>

I think that wine from anything other than grapes needs a qualifier, but it is indeed wine!

http://uk.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUKL0530378620071105

Lardy

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

http://www.littlefatwino.com/

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From scott.dolson at sympatico.ca  Mon Nov  5 21:17:47 2007
From: scott.dolson at sympatico.ca (Scott Dolson)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 21:17:47 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Is wine only made from grapes
References: <00b301c82017$a1509a90$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <04e601c8201b$3a8aa630$2402e440@DolsonFamily>

ITP Nelson Canadian Dictionary of the English Language denotes the following:

Wine (win) n. 1.a. A beverage made of the fermented juice of any of various kinds of grapes, usually containing 10 to 15% alcohol by volume. b. A beverage made of the fermented juice of any of various other fruits or plants. 2. Something that intoxicates or exhilarates. 3. Colour. The colour of red wine. ....

Grapes and 'other' fruit (or plants) make it within the first qualifier... qualifier number 2 is okay too! 

Cheers
Scott


Scott & Helle-Mai Dolson
1073 Line 11 North, R.R. # 1
Hawkestone, Ontario.
Canada, L0L 1T0
Ph: 705-487-5443
scott.dolson at sympatico.ca
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Larry Paterson 
  To: Growwine List 
  Cc: Jim Warren 
  Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 8:52 PM
  Subject: [Growwine] Is wine only made from grapes


  I think that wine from anything other than grapes needs a qualifier, but it is indeed wine!

  http://uk.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUKL0530378620071105

  Lardy

  Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
  (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

  http://www.littlefatwino.com/




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From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca  Tue Nov  6 08:19:31 2007
From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:19:31 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] SAQ chief heads to private company in Quebec
Message-ID: <002a01c82077$e7a61f00$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/business/story.html?id=fae9b255-08d2-4ca4-a035-9254f81e06a9

(I've pasted this below my signature as well.)


Would this be the same SAQ chief that presided over the recent attack on the ability of small wineries in Quebec to sell at local markets?  And also presided over the price fixing scandal?   And now this person is responsible for the factory producer which controls much of the private-channel wine sales in Quebec?

somebody please show me where my cynical thoughts are wrong,

very interesting indeed, and having him sell toilet paper at the same time is somehow most appropriate...

thanks

Lardy

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

http://www.littlefatwino.com/

Ex-SAQ boss heads to Kruger
By yearend. To oversee products from ice wine to toilet paper
ALLISON LAMPERT, The Gazette
Published: 5 hours ago
Sylvain Toutant, the SAQ boss who came under fire during the liquor board's price fixing scandal last year, is taking a new job at pulp and paper manufacturer Kruger Inc.

Toutant, who resigned Friday as director-general of the Soci?t? des alcools du Qu?bec, is expected to take over as Kruger's executive vice-president, consumer products, by the end of the year, a statement said yesterday.

Toutant refused to speak to reporters yesterday.

His resignation came as a surprise to colleagues, said SAQ spokesperson St?phanie Trud-eau. An interim successor will be recommended by the SAQ's board.

"We wouldn't be surprised if it's someone from inside the SAQ," she said.

Almost two weeks ago, Toutant was chosen from a handful of finalists to run two of Kruger's seven divisions - including its wine and spirits unit, the Maison des Futailles, which was owned until fall 2006 by the SAQ. Besides promoting Quebec ice wines, the Maison bottles and sells wines to provincial grocery stores and d?panneurs.

Toutant will oversee products ranging from toilet paper to ice wines in divisions that together generate $880 million in annual sales, said Donald Cayouette, Kruger's executive vice-president of operations.

"We were looking ... for quite a while to fill this position," Cayouette said. "When we consider a candidate, we look at all the elements. Mr. Toutant's strength was really his knowledge of the retailing sector."

Cayouette said Kruger was not put off by a 2006 auditor-general's report that said Toutant "neglected the tasks he should have done" when two SAQ vice-presidents proposed raising wine prices by more than nine per cent. The failure to adjust wine prices to the lower valuation of the euro cost taxpayers an estimated $8 million, the auditor-general wrote.

"That was not considered a negative element," Cayouette said.

In fact, Toutant, the former CEO of R?no-D?p?t - now a division of Rona Inc. - was hired more for his ability to sell tissue and toilet paper than wine, Cayouette said. The consumer paper products division generates 10 times more sales than the Maison des Futailles, he said.

Still, Toutant will be involved with Kruger's plan to expand the division's activities across Canada. In September 2006, Kruger acquired 75 per cent of the Maison des Futailles from the SAQ.

The Quebec Federation of Labour's Solidarity Fund holds the remaining 25-per-cent interest.

"Most of the deal was negotiated with CFO (Richard Genest). We did not negotiate with Mr. Toutant," Cayouette said.

SAQ spokesperson Trudeau noted that the liquor board was thinking of selling the Maison des Futailles before Toutant's arrival in September 2004.

And she insisted Toutant's ties to the liquor board wouldn't give the Maison des Futailles an advantage over competitors like bottler Vincor Quebec Inc.

For example, the Maison now has an exclusivity deal with the SAQ to sell a line of eight high-end wines in provincial grocery stores and d?panneurs. But in 2009, the Maison's exclusive right to sell French wines certified appellation d'origine contr?l?e will come to an end. Vincor has said it would bid when the SAQ calls for tenders on the AOC wines.

"Any call for tenders would be done with full transparency," Trudeau said. "(Toutant) knows the industry well, but so do his competitors."

alampert at thegazette.canwest.com





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From walter_and_mary at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  6 08:34:00 2007
From: walter_and_mary at yahoo.com (Walter Cartwright)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 05:34:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Growwine] Pressure in a cider bottle
Message-ID: <112045.46505.qm@web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear cider maker
I would think a sparling cider would be similar to a
sparkling wine or Champagne, you will need a champagne
style bottle the pressure in these bottles are as high
as 90 psi, when removing cork always point away from
any one and into a safe open space , not the cieling
this will remove plaster or leave a severe dent.
                    have fun  
                            Walter
                  In training Sommelier Algonquin College

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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From walter_and_mary at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  6 08:36:14 2007
From: walter_and_mary at yahoo.com (Walter Cartwright)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 05:36:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Growwine] Pressure in a cider bottle
Message-ID: <466233.71407.qm@web31008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear cider maker
I would think a sparling cider would be similar to a
sparkling wine or Champagne, you will need a champagne
style bottle the pressure in these bottles are as high
as 90 psi, when removing cork always point away from
any one and into a safe open space and ease out
slowly, this will prevent the cork from flying around
the room ,do not point at  the ceiling this will
remove plaster or leave a severe dent.
                    have fun  
                            Walter
                  In training Sommelier Algonquin College

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From pabls at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  8 12:33:05 2007
From: pabls at yahoo.com (Paul Bulas)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 09:33:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Growwine] The Eona variety
Message-ID: <466068.52194.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

Just a quick request on info about the Eona variety and what wine from it is like.  Any growers of this very cold-hardy white hybrid?  I understand that it has a labrusca type profile if allowed to ripen.  Is it similar to Edelweiss?  Any info on typical sugar accumulation, training habits, etc?  I'm thinking of a Central/Southern Ontario climate.

Thanks very much.
Paul


      Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
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From canadavintage at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  8 21:36:04 2007
From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (CanadaVintage)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 18:36:04 -0800
Subject: [Growwine] The Eona variety
References: <466068.52194.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY113-DAV11B3B5609346C492679252A18B0@phx.gbl>

We grow it at Carone and I can honestly say that the vine is okay. It is very vigourous and hardy. However it tends to overcrop and needs cluster thinning.  the other problems we have had with it is that it grows very similarily to Concord, so it is hard to manage unless a high trellis is used.  

I use Eona in all my blends. It works well with reds, whites and the ros?s.  However it is very strawberry-like in flavor when it goes pinkish(yes it is a pink grape when ripe).  Some of my grape hands have commented that it tastes like cotton candy.

The clusters are small and sometimes seedless...???  Eona also has a cyclic weirdness. In some years, it will not flower. Probably once every 5 years this happens. I cannot understand why this is so. Perhaps it has some trait that is similar to peaches in Ontario?

The acid is very low on the grape and can make your winemaking very enjoyable when used in high-acid must.

It will probably do quite well in Ontario.  As far as disease, I have only seen crown gall on a few plants.  Eona is slightly suspectible to Black rot, Anthracnose.
Anthony



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Paul Bulas 
  To: Growwine 
  Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:33 AM
  Subject: [Growwine] The Eona variety


  Hi all,

  Just a quick request on info about the Eona variety and what wine from it is like.  Any growers of this very cold-hardy white hybrid?  I understand that it has a labrusca type profile if allowed to ripen.  Is it similar to Edelweiss?  Any info on typical sugar accumulation, training habits, etc?  I'm thinking of a Central/Southern Ontario climate.

  Thanks very much.
  Paul





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From helbert at idirect.com  Fri Nov  9 09:03:46 2007
From: helbert at idirect.com (Burt Dunn)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 09:03:46 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Fw: ARS Newslink
Message-ID: <00a201c822d9$c17643a0$459760cf@syspreinstall>

The below article may be of interest to many 
Cheers                Bert
Bert Dunn  Box 352   Schomberg   L0G 1T0    zone 4b/5a
www.littlefatwino.com/bertslist
Think Blending  Not Varietals



From: "ARS News Service" <NewsService at ars.usda.gov>
To: "Newslink subscriber" <helbert at idirect.com>
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:02 AM

>
> VIDEO:
> Grape expectations
> Eight-minute video outlines research aimed at making the U.S. grape and 
> wine industry more competitive.
> http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/video/vnr/grapes.htm
>

>
> * Send feedback and questions to the ARS News Service at 
> NewsService at ars.usda.gov
> * You are subscribed to "Newslink" as helbert at idirect.com.
> * To change the address, please notify the ARS News Service at 
> NewsService at ars.usda.gov.
> * To unsubscribe, send a blank email to 
> leave-137056-81622Q at ls.ars.usda.gov.
> * Other ARS news products are available by e-mail. For details about them 
> or to subscribe, please contact the ARS News Service or visit 
> http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/lists.htm.
> __________________________________________
> ARS News Service, Information Staff, Agricultural Research Service
> 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128
> NewsService at ars.usda.gov | www.ars.usda.gov/news
> Phone (301) 504-1636 | fax (301) 504-1486
>


From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca  Mon Nov 12 12:04:43 2007
From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 12:04:43 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] test
Message-ID: <003401c8254e$212663e0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>

Hello all

just a test

I have received a couple of comments about not receiving postings in November.  I have seen only a few.

Anyone else getting anything?

thanks

Lardy

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

http://www.littlefatwino.com/

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From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca  Mon Nov 12 17:50:43 2007
From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:50:43 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] test
Message-ID: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>

After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on me that replies were redirected to the original poster rather than the list.  No telling how many messages disappeared into thin air this way...

Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I have them properly redirected?

sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...

thanks

Lardy

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

http://www.littlefatwino.com/

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From newdundeesteve at rogers.com  Mon Nov 12 17:58:47 2007
From: newdundeesteve at rogers.com (Steve McDonald)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:58:47 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] [Bulk]  test
In-Reply-To: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
References: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <001e01c8257f$95cc7d20$c1657760$@com>

Larry

Here is your reply

 

Steve McDonald

 

From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com
[mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Larry Paterson
Sent: November 12, 2007 5:51 PM
To: Growwine List
Subject: [Bulk] [Growwine] test

 

After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on me that
replies were redirected to the original poster rather than the list.  No
telling how many messages disappeared into thin air this way...

 

Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I have them
properly redirected?

 

sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...

 

thanks

 

Lardy

 

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

 

http://www.littlefatwino.com/

 

 

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From barrie.crampton at sympatico.ca  Mon Nov 12 18:25:43 2007
From: barrie.crampton at sympatico.ca (Barrie Crampton)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:25:43 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] test
References: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <002601c82583$82bd0bb0$874facce@laptop>

Messages received and understood

Barrie
Glen Tay
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Larry Paterson 
  To: Growwine List 
  Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 5:50 PM
  Subject: [Growwine] test


  After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on me that replies were redirected to the original poster rather than the list.  No telling how many messages disappeared into thin air this way...

  Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I have them properly redirected?

  sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...

  thanks

  Lardy

  Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
  (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

  http://www.littlefatwino.com/




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
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From hydahlia at shaw.ca  Mon Nov 12 18:35:36 2007
From: hydahlia at shaw.ca (Wayne Holland)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:35:36 -0800
Subject: [Growwine] test
In-Reply-To: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
References: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <9A8EF7E2-00E8-46BB-9E09-E92FB5F580C4@shaw.ca>

another reply
wayne
On 12-Nov-07, at 2:50 PM, Larry Paterson wrote:

> After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on  
> me that replies were redirected to the original poster rather than  
> the list.  No telling how many messages disappeared into thin air  
> this way...
>
> Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I  
> have them properly redirected?
>
> sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...
>
> thanks
>
> Lardy
>
> Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
> (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)
>
> http://www.littlefatwino.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Growwine mailing list
> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine

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From zenwk at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 12 19:04:22 2007
From: zenwk at hotmail.com (Zenon Kiszczuk)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 00:04:22 +0000
Subject: [Growwine] test
In-Reply-To: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
References: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <BAY117-W367F9CB841B13FB2385B51A2800@phx.gbl>


Here is your reply


From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.caTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:50:43 -0500Subject: [Growwine] test



After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on me that replies were redirected to the original poster rather than the list.  No telling how many messages disappeared into thin air this way...
 
Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I have them properly redirected?
 
sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...
 
thanks
 
Lardy
 
Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)
 
http://www.littlefatwino.com/
 
 
_________________________________________________________________
Send a smile, make someone laugh, have some fun! Start now!
http://www.freemessengeremoticons.ca/?icid=EMENCA122
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From vitiferas at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 12 19:15:16 2007
From: vitiferas at hotmail.com (Jean Houle)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:15:16 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] test
In-Reply-To: <9A8EF7E2-00E8-46BB-9E09-E92FB5F580C4@shaw.ca>
References: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
	<9A8EF7E2-00E8-46BB-9E09-E92FB5F580C4@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W40B367D9D902A3E6B6511CAE800@phx.gbl>


Here you go Larry.Jean Houle Charlemagne Quebec Zone de rusticit? 4b-5a du Canada Canada plant hardiness zone 4b-5a Sud-ouest du Qu?bec / Southwest Qu?bec "Petit ou grand, un bon vin a la gueule de l'endroit o? il est n?, et les tripes du bonhomme qui l'a fait." Jacques Puisais "The best chance of success is crossing adaptive hybrids on other adaptive hybrids." Elmer Swenson  
  


Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:35:36 -0800From: hydahlia at shaw.caTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comSubject: Re: [Growwine] testanother reply 
wayne

On 12-Nov-07, at 2:50 PM, Larry Paterson wrote:

After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on me that replies were redirected to the original poster rather than the list.  No telling how many messages disappeared into thin air this way...
 
Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I have them properly redirected?
 
sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...
 
thanks
 
Lardy
 
Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)
 
http://www.littlefatwino.com/
 
 
_______________________________________________
Growwine mailing list
Growwine at littlefatwino.com
http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with free Messenger emoticons. Get them today!
http://www.freemessengeremoticons.ca/?icid=EMENCA122
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From dfolkins at istar.ca  Mon Nov 12 19:16:38 2007
From: dfolkins at istar.ca (Don Folkins)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:16:38 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] test
In-Reply-To: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <001c01c8258a$76c0cac0$8516ba89@DCGVN421>

Hi Larry - 
 
your message was received.
 
Don Folkins

-----Original Message-----
From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com
[mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Larry Paterson
Sent: November 12, 2007 18:51
To: Growwine List
Subject: [Growwine] test


After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on me that
replies were redirected to the original poster rather than the list.  No
telling how many messages disappeared into thin air this way...
 
Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I have them
properly redirected?
 
sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...
 
thanks
 
Lardy
 
Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)
 
http://www.littlefatwino.com/
 
 

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From jeanguy.lemieux at videotron.ca  Mon Nov 12 19:13:46 2007
From: jeanguy.lemieux at videotron.ca (Jean-Guy)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:13:46 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] RE :  test
In-Reply-To: <BAY117-W367F9CB841B13FB2385B51A2800@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001901c8258a$0edf9f30$6500a8c0@ARISTOTE>

We could have told you right from the beginning,

Hi Larry,

Jean-Guy

 

 

-----Message d'origine-----
De : growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com
[mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] De la part de Zenon Kiszczuk
Envoy? : 12 novembre 2007 19:04
? : growwine at littlefatwino.com
Objet : Re: [Growwine] test

 

Here is your reply

  _____  

From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:50:43 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] test

After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on me that
replies were redirected to the original poster rather than the list.  No
telling how many messages disappeared into thin air this way...

 

Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I have them
properly redirected?

 

sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...

 

thanks

 

Lardy

 

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

 

http://www.littlefatwino.com/

 

 

 

  _____  

Send a smile, make someone laugh, have some fun! Start now!
<http://www.freemessengeremoticons.ca/?icid=EMENCA122> 

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From jrtoye at rogers.com  Mon Nov 12 19:29:00 2007
From: jrtoye at rogers.com (John Toye)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:29:00 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] test
In-Reply-To: <002601c82583$82bd0bb0$874facce@laptop>
References: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
	<002601c82583$82bd0bb0$874facce@laptop>
Message-ID: <4738EFCC.1000209@rogers.com>

Hello Lardy;

Yes, I'm getting your stuff.

Cancel my query WRT the Wine Conference in Sonoma County, California May 
16-17,  2008
 I found the offending missing e-mail.

If you are interested goto: http://winemakermag.com/conferenceseminars/

Yours aye,
John T

Barrie Crampton wrote:
> Messages received and understood
>  
> Barrie
> Glen Tay
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Larry Paterson <mailto:littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca>
>     *To:* Growwine List <mailto:growwine at littlefatwino.com>
>     *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2007 5:50 PM
>     *Subject:* [Growwine] test
>
>     After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on
>     me that replies were redirected to the original poster rather than
>     the list.  No telling how many messages disappeared into thin air
>     this way...
>      
>     Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I
>     have them properly redirected?
>      
>     sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...
>      
>     thanks
>      
>     Lardy
>      
>     Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
>     (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)
>      
>     http://www.littlefatwino.com/
>      
>      
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     _______________________________________________
>     Growwine mailing list
>     Growwine at littlefatwino.com
>     http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Growwine mailing list
> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.30/1126 - Release Date: 12/11/2007 12:56 PM
>   

-- 
__________________________
J.R. Toye
Lieutenant Colonel (retired)
22 Walton Court
Ottawa,ON K1V 9T1
jrtoye at rogers.com
613-523-1494
Cell 613-299-6614


From jomuam at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 12 20:21:13 2007
From: jomuam at yahoo.com (andy jones)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:21:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Growwine] test
In-Reply-To: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <755799.75244.qm@web52810.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

YO....got it.


"But I don't care where the water goes if it doesn't get into the wine"...Noah ...according to G.K.Chesterton


      Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail.  Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca 

From littlefatwino at trytel.net  Mon Nov 12 20:49:01 2007
From: littlefatwino at trytel.net (littlefatwino@trytel.net)
Date: 12 Nov 2007 20:49:01 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Article from thestar.com
Message-ID: <68d38f$1lob51@ironport1.thestar.ca>

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From laura-sabourin at sympatico.ca  Mon Nov 12 20:51:53 2007
From: laura-sabourin at sympatico.ca (Laura)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:51:53 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] test
References: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP082C548741F1990468FEB1E8800@CEZ.ICE>

you irrating never Lardy LOL 

Laura 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Larry Paterson 
  To: Growwine List 
  Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 5:50 PM
  Subject: [Growwine] test


  After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on me that replies were redirected to the original poster rather than the list.  No telling how many messages disappeared into thin air this way...

  Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I have them properly redirected?

  sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...

  thanks

  Lardy

  Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
  (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

  http://www.littlefatwino.com/




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
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From canadavintage at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 13 00:00:10 2007
From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (CanadaVintage)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:00:10 -0800
Subject: [Growwine] test
References: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <BAY113-DAV14390F1B3894B2763CD44DA1800@phx.gbl>

hey
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Larry Paterson 
  To: Growwine List 
  Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 2:50 PM
  Subject: [Growwine] test


  After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on me that replies were redirected to the original poster rather than the list.  No telling how many messages disappeared into thin air this way...

  Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I have them properly redirected?

  sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...

  thanks

  Lardy

  Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
  (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

  http://www.littlefatwino.com/




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine

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From alexclachers at cogeco.ca  Mon Nov 12 21:37:38 2007
From: alexclachers at cogeco.ca (Alex Clachers)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:37:38 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] test
In-Reply-To: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
References: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <6E93B9A2822345088DE282677B9C01DA@AlexPC>

All good here.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Larry Paterson 
  To: Growwine List 
  Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 5:50 PM
  Subject: [Growwine] test


  After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on me that replies were redirected to the original poster rather than the list.  No telling how many messages disappeared into thin air this way...

  Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I have them properly redirected?

  sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...

  thanks

  Lardy

  Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
  (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

  http://www.littlefatwino.com/




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
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From scott.dolson at sympatico.ca  Tue Nov 13 06:05:15 2007
From: scott.dolson at sympatico.ca (Scott Dolson)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:05:15 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] test
References: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <002d01c825e5$123c7670$5492d1d8@DolsonFamily>

Hello again Larry ... to the reply!!

Cheers
Scott

Scott & Helle-Mai Dolson
1073 Line 11 North, R.R. # 1
Hawkestone, Ontario.
Canada, L0L 1T0
Ph: 705-487-5443
scott.dolson at sympatico.ca
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Larry Paterson 
  To: Growwine List 
  Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 5:50 PM
  Subject: [Growwine] test


  After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on me that replies were redirected to the original poster rather than the list.  No telling how many messages disappeared into thin air this way...

  Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I have them properly redirected?

  sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...

  thanks

  Lardy

  Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
  (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

  http://www.littlefatwino.com/




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
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From leon_casaubon at sympatico.ca  Tue Nov 13 09:30:57 2007
From: leon_casaubon at sympatico.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?L=E9on__Casaubon?=)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:30:57 -0800
Subject: [Growwine] test
References: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
	<6E93B9A2822345088DE282677B9C01DA@AlexPC>
Message-ID: <001801c82601$cfeabf30$2502a8c0@IBM56F9D334E88>

duly received. Thanks.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alex Clachers 
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:37 PM
  Subject: Re: [Growwine] test


  All good here.
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Larry Paterson 
    To: Growwine List 
    Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 5:50 PM
    Subject: [Growwine] test


    After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on me that replies were redirected to the original poster rather than the list.  No telling how many messages disappeared into thin air this way...

    Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I have them properly redirected?

    sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...

    thanks

    Lardy

    Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
    (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

    http://www.littlefatwino.com/




----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    _______________________________________________
    Growwine mailing list
    Growwine at littlefatwino.com
    http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
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From jabaker at accesswave.ca  Tue Nov 13 07:20:40 2007
From: jabaker at accesswave.ca (J & A Baker)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 08:20:40 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] test
In-Reply-To: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <6195rf$5l9fnd@ip03.eastlink.ca>

Larry:

 

Replying again.

 

Alan

 

   _____  

From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com
[mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Larry Paterson
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:51 PM
To: Growwine List
Subject: [Growwine] test

 

After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on me that
replies were redirected to the original poster rather than the list.  No
telling how many messages disappeared into thin air this way...

 

Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I have them
properly redirected?

 

sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...

 

thanks

 

Lardy

 

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

 

HYPERLINK "http://www.littlefatwino.com/"http://www.littlefatwino.com/

 

 


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.30/1127 - Release Date: 11/12/2007
9:19 PM



No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.30/1127 - Release Date: 11/12/2007
9:19 PM
 
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From jabaker at accesswave.ca  Tue Nov 13 08:39:30 2007
From: jabaker at accesswave.ca (J & A Baker)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 09:39:30 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
Message-ID: <6e6cfq$41h99@ip04.eastlink.ca>

I?m looking for some feedback on the above.

 

After 26 years of using regular corks, with some nominal / occasional loss,
I switched to Noma (synthetic) Corks.

 

Now I am not certain that it was a good decision so I am hopeful of
receiving some comments on others observations.  I have not experienced
serious problems but I do have some concerns about freshness and possible
oxidation.  I know that a western US winery undertook a 4 year study on
closures and determined that screw caps were the best.  In fact, they even
selected a particular type of screw cap to use in their winery.
Unfortunately, screw caps do not appear to be a reasonable option for home
winemakers.

 

As a part of that comment they alluded to the fact that synthetic corks
might be TOO tight, locking in an amount of oxygen when it is corked.  Maybe
my concern is unwarranted but observations of others would be appreciated.

 

Many thanks,

 

Alan Baker


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.30/1127 - Release Date: 11/12/2007
9:19 PM
 
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From willgrieve at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 13 08:46:20 2007
From: willgrieve at yahoo.com (will grieve)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:46:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Growwine] test
Message-ID: <354375.83980.qm@web57004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I'm back.


----- Original Message ----
From: L?on Casaubon <leon_casaubon at sympatico.ca>
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 8:30:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] test


duly received. Thanks.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Alex Clachers 
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] test


All good here.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Larry Paterson 
To: Growwine List 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 5:50 PM
Subject: [Growwine] test


After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on me that replies were redirected to the original poster rather than the list.  No telling how many messages disappeared into thin air this way...
 
Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I have them properly redirected?
 
sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...
 
thanks
 
Lardy
 
Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)
 
http://www.littlefatwino.com/
 
 



_______________________________________________
Growwine mailing list
Growwine at littlefatwino.com
http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine




_______________________________________________
Growwine mailing list
Growwine at littlefatwino.com
http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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From hydahlia at shaw.ca  Tue Nov 13 10:30:01 2007
From: hydahlia at shaw.ca (Wayne Holland)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:30:01 -0800
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
In-Reply-To: <6e6cfq$41h99@ip04.eastlink.ca>
References: <6e6cfq$41h99@ip04.eastlink.ca>
Message-ID: <47159DDD-F221-4EE1-A1DD-8A62CF0E6D84@shaw.ca>

For the home winemaker  I advise regular crown caps. I have been  
using them since the '80's with complete satisfaction and no losses  
whatsoever.

Test: 1986 Zinfandel was made. A year in old barrel with charred oak  
sticks added. A very promising wine. Several bottles were crown  
capped with matching 6 cm corked bottles. They have been opened over  
the years with interested friends and compared and the cap has ALWAYS  
been the preferred one, if any difference could be noted. Luck has  
held and all corks remained sound. The last pair were put to the test  
2 years ago. Same results.

Finding appropriate bottles can be a chore as many bottle return  
depots are now computerized and don't or won't sell bottles to the  
public. Best bottles are Andres sparkling wine. Tall Riesling 750 mL  
shape. Also avail in magnum 1.5 L size. NZ Steinlager is a 750  mL  
bottle that is very satisfactory. I also am quite fond of the clear  
Corona bottles for ros? or blush wines. They are 330 mL except in the  
US where they are 355 mL. Also made in 650 mL. Many other beer  
companies make large format product in the mid 600 mL size and if you  
can settle in on one size it helps so you don't have to adjust your  
capper height all the time.

Note that a slight re-ferment in these strong bottles will not be a  
problem. You will just have a bit of champagne.

Crown cap at a penny vs (good) cork at a quarter. Another bonus is  
that bottles can be stored upright on your cellar shelves which suits  
me, and sediment settles out on the BOTTOM of the bottle.

I do cork a few that are to be gifts to people because I don't want  
to give my good crown cap types away. Some folks are good returners,  
but most that leave are on a one way trip.

Last point. A sharpie pen can put a full ID on the cap. No label  
required.

regards, wayne
On 13-Nov-07, at 5:39 AM, J & A Baker wrote:

> I?m looking for some feedback on the above.
>
>
>
> After 26 years of using regular corks, with some nominal /  
> occasional loss, I switched to Noma (synthetic) Corks.
>
>
>
> Now I am not certain that it was a good decision so I am hopeful of  
> receiving some comments on others observations.  I have not  
> experienced serious problems but I do have some concerns about  
> freshness and possible oxidation.  I know that a western US winery  
> undertook a 4 year study on closures and determined that screw caps  
> were the best.  In fact, they even selected a particular type of  
> screw cap to use in their winery.  Unfortunately, screw caps do not  
> appear to be a reasonable option for home winemakers.
>
>
>
> As a part of that comment they alluded to the fact that synthetic  
> corks might be TOO tight, locking in an amount of oxygen when it is  
> corked.  Maybe my concern is unwarranted but observations of others  
> would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
>
>
> Alan Baker
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.30/1127 - Release Date:  
> 11/12/2007 9:19 PM
>
> _______________________________________________
> Growwine mailing list
> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine

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From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca  Tue Nov 13 10:40:41 2007
From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:40:41 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast
Message-ID: <008901c8260d$640c09c0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>

Hi everyone:

I've been using encapsulated yeast (from Scott Labs, see  http://www.scottlab.com/products/fermentation/yeast.asp#encapsulated

they've loaded a better users guide at  http://www.scottlab.com/products/fermentation/documents/UsersguideforProElif.pdf    

I've been using some of the leftovers from last year (which seem to have survived well in my fridge) to do some unique fermentations.  I started by putting the probably 30 grams of ProElif DV 10 into the four litres plus of really nice ripe Vidal from the end of my house in Peterborough.  When this was down to a nice residual sugar (around 4 per cent sugar right now, may take it a bit farther yet) I ran the wine through a new coffee filter, trapping the encapsulated yeast easily.  

This yeast, which was somewhat larger than it started, was then added to four litres of apple juice, and quickly fermented this dry.  At this point, I took the yeast and added it into two litres of reverse-osmosis water.  Also, I put in 12 grams of tartaric acid, and 400 grams of sugar, and about 1.5 grams of fermaid.  This made it 20% sugar, with 6 grams per litre of acidity, and an incredible pH of about 2.3.  This too fermented quickly and the now-much-larger yeast beads are fermenting another four litres of water, without benefit of yeast nutrient this time.

http://littlefatwino.com/temporary1.jpg

http://littlefatwino.com/temporary2.jpg

http://littlefatwino.com/temporary3.jpg

The process is much like a sixties lava lamp, with beads rising and falling all over the carboy.  Amazing to watch.  Can't wait to explore uses for this water wine.  Can't imagine anything further happening when it is just reverse-osmosis water, a bit of acid and some alcohol.  May be perfect general-purpose topup wine!  (and how about running this through the coffee maker to serve to overnight wino guests who may have had a slight excess)

comments?

Lardy

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

http://www.littlefatwino.com/

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From winemaker at kacaba.com  Tue Nov 13 11:26:12 2007
From: winemaker at kacaba.com (John)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:26:12 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
In-Reply-To: <6e6cfq$41h99@ip04.eastlink.ca>
Message-ID: <008901c82611$e7c0c950$6500a8c0@Winery>

Most of the manufacturers of synthetic corks originally had some problems
which may have ben addressed. The hard plastic corks (Supreme?) were
dificult to remove and provided too much of a seal. Noma had their share of
problems as well. We tested them and had oxidation problems, the skin curled
up when inserted into the bottle, leakers, etc. They now have resolved most
of these issues, I believe. They have 4 different ones that I am familiar
with. The cheapest is really only for maximum 12 month storage so you have
to choose the correct one to suit your needs. Sabate made the Altec and had
lots of TCA problems that took years to resolve, but now they have a
reasonably priced synthetic called the Diam and I have used them as an
amateur for years. The KW Winemakers Club has gone through 20 or 30 thousand
of these with no problems that I am aware of. Several wineries in the area
use them.
 
At Kacaba, we use only good quality corks (cost about $.50 ea). If we were
to choose an alternative , we woud go screw cap. We sell to a lot of
licencees (restaraunts) and they tell us that they and their customers
prefer corks first, then screw cap and finally synthetics.
 
John

  _____  

From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com
[mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of J & A Baker
Sent: November 13, 2007 8:40 AM
To: Growwine
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures



I'm looking for some feedback on the above.

 

After 26 years of using regular corks, with some nominal / occasional loss,
I switched to Noma (synthetic) Corks.

 

Now I am not certain that it was a good decision so I am hopeful of
receiving some comments on others observations.  I have not experienced
serious problems but I do have some concerns about freshness and possible
oxidation.  I know that a western US winery undertook a 4 year study on
closures and determined that screw caps were the best.  In fact, they even
selected a particular type of screw cap to use in their winery.
Unfortunately, screw caps do not appear to be a reasonable option for home
winemakers.

 

As a part of that comment they alluded to the fact that synthetic corks
might be TOO tight, locking in an amount of oxygen when it is corked.  Maybe
my concern is unwarranted but observations of others would be appreciated.

 

Many thanks,

 

Alan Baker


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.30/1127 - Release Date: 11/12/2007
9:19 PM


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From pabls at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 13 11:38:02 2007
From: pabls at yahoo.com (Paul Bulas)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 08:38:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
Message-ID: <387717.66568.qm@web56815.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I will add that as a consumer, I have had okay luck with solid, high-quality cork - although two recent good wines I bought had good corks and ... they were badly corked!!  More and more I am getting partial to the screwcap.  I definitely dislike synthetic corks - I get a vinyl-like plasticky thing in many of the wines; reds taste strangely thin under these plastic corks.  And besides, what do fake corks do that a screwcap can't do better? 


----- Original Message ----
From: John <winemaker at kacaba.com>
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:26:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures


Most of the manufacturers of synthetic corks originally had some problems which may have ben addressed. The hard plastic corks (Supreme?) were dificult to remove and provided too much of a seal. Noma had their share of problems as well. We tested them and had oxidation problems, the skin curled up when inserted into the bottle, leakers, etc. They now have resolved most of these issues, I believe. They have 4 different ones that I am familiar with. The cheapest is really only for maximum 12 month storage so you have to choose the correct one to suit your needs. Sabate made the Altec and had lots of TCA problems that took years to resolve, but now they have a reasonably priced synthetic called the Diam and I have used them as an amateur for years. The KW Winemakers Club has gone through 20 or 30 thousand of these with no problems that I am aware of. Several wineries in the area use them.
 
At Kacaba, we use only good quality corks (cost about $.50 ea). If we were to choose an alternative , we woud go screw cap. We sell to a lot of licencees (restaraunts) and they tell us that they and their customers prefer corks first, then screw cap and finally synthetics.
 
John


      Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail.  Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca 
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From defaria at hughes.net  Tue Nov 13 11:41:59 2007
From: defaria at hughes.net (defaria@hughes.net)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:41:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Growwine] test
Message-ID: <21955135.1194972119331.JavaMail.?@fh121.dia.he.tucows.com>


"Dito"

Duke Defaria

 
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From mauro at ridgepointwines.com  Tue Nov 13 16:14:57 2007
From: mauro at ridgepointwines.com (mauro@ridgepointwines.com)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:14:57 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
In-Reply-To: <387717.66568.qm@web56815.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <387717.66568.qm@web56815.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20071113171457.nls2xm7ukw8s8ck0@webmail.easyhosting.com>


Paul

We at RIdgepoint wines decided not to go to screw caps. They have their 
own set
of problems that dont get mentioned too often.  You have to also ensure the
capper is working properly to ensure there was a proper seal.  We moved to the
Diam cork, which is considered a Technical Cork.  Its natural cork that been
ground up, washed in a liquid co2 bath and then glued back together with an
inert glue.  THis process also results in every cork being identical and
therefore no bottle variations exists.  At the end of the day we have 
cork that
is guaranteed cork taint free and allows the wine to age gracefully.  In
addition, cork supports cork farming and has a lower carbon footprint then
screw caps

Mauro
Ridgepoint Wines




Quoting Paul Bulas <pabls at yahoo.com>:

> I will add that as a consumer, I have had okay luck with solid,
> high-quality cork - although two recent good wines I bought had good
> corks and ... they were badly corked!!  More and more I am getting
> partial to the screwcap.  I definitely dislike synthetic corks - I
> get a vinyl-like plasticky thing in many of the wines; reds taste
> strangely thin under these plastic corks.  And besides, what do fake
> corks do that a screwcap can't do better?
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John
> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:26:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
>
> Most of the manufacturers of synthetic corks originally had some
> problems which may have ben addressed. The hard plastic corks
> (Supreme?) were dificult to remove and provided too much of a seal. 
> Noma had their share of problems as well. We tested them and had
> oxidation problems, the skin curled up when inserted into the bottle,
> leakers, etc. They now have resolved most of these issues, I believe. 
> They have 4 different ones that I am familiar with. The cheapest is
> really only for maximum 12 month storage so you have to choose the
> correct one to suit your needs. Sabate made the Altec and had lots of
> TCA problems that took years to resolve, but now they have a
> reasonably priced synthetic called the Diam and I have used them as
> an amateur for years. The KW Winemakers Club has gone through 20 or
> 30 thousand of these with no problems that I am aware of. Several
> wineries in the area use them.   At Kacaba, we use only good quality
> corks (cost about $.50 ea). If we were to choose an alternative , we
> woud go screw cap. We sell to a lot of licencees (restaraunts) and
> they tell us that they and their customers prefer corks first, then
> screw cap and finally synthetics.   John
>
> -------------------------
> http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/
> -------------------------
> Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. 



Mauro Scarsellone
Ridgepoint Wines
3900 Cherry Avenue
Vineland, ON
L0R 2C0

From canadavintage at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 13 19:56:00 2007
From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (CanadaVintage)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:56:00 -0800
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
References: <6e6cfq$41h99@ip04.eastlink.ca>
Message-ID: <BAY113-DAV13CD8EB647B2D7CB624FE5A1800@phx.gbl>

I do not stand behind Noma Corc.  They leak, trap air and are down right hated in the restaurant industry by sommeliers.

Anthony Carone
www.caronewines.com




  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: J & A Baker 
  To: Growwine 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:39 AM
  Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures


  I?m looking for some feedback on the above.

   

  After 26 years of using regular corks, with some nominal / occasional loss, I switched to Noma (synthetic) Corks.

   

  Now I am not certain that it was a good decision so I am hopeful of receiving some comments on others observations.  I have not experienced serious problems but I do have some concerns about freshness and possible oxidation.  I know that a western US winery undertook a 4 year study on closures and determined that screw caps were the best.  In fact, they even selected a particular type of screw cap to use in their winery.  Unfortunately, screw caps do not appear to be a reasonable option for home winemakers.

   

  As a part of that comment they alluded to the fact that synthetic corks might be TOO tight, locking in an amount of oxygen when it is corked.  Maybe my concern is unwarranted but observations of others would be appreciated.

   

  Many thanks,

   

  Alan Baker



  No virus found in this outgoing message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.30/1127 - Release Date: 11/12/2007 9:19 PM




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine

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From ryan at darksleep.com  Tue Nov 13 17:10:31 2007
From: ryan at darksleep.com (Ryan Daum)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:10:31 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
In-Reply-To: <20071113171457.nls2xm7ukw8s8ck0@webmail.easyhosting.com>
References: <387717.66568.qm@web56815.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<20071113171457.nls2xm7ukw8s8ck0@webmail.easyhosting.com>
Message-ID: <1194991831.7115.8.camel@teak>

I don't suppose corks of this type are available to the amateur market
at all?  What if a group of amateurs were to buy together?

Ryan

On Tue, 2007-11-13 at 17:14 -0400, mauro at ridgepointwines.com wrote:
> Paul
> 
> We at RIdgepoint wines decided not to go to screw caps. They have their 
> own set
> of problems that dont get mentioned too often.  You have to also ensure the
> capper is working properly to ensure there was a proper seal.  We moved to the
> Diam cork, which is considered a Technical Cork.  Its natural cork that been
> ground up, washed in a liquid co2 bath and then glued back together with an
> inert glue.  THis process also results in every cork being identical and
> therefore no bottle variations exists.  At the end of the day we have 
> cork that
> is guaranteed cork taint free and allows the wine to age gracefully.  In
> addition, cork supports cork farming and has a lower carbon footprint then
> screw caps
> 
> Mauro
> Ridgepoint Wines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quoting Paul Bulas <pabls at yahoo.com>:
> 
> > I will add that as a consumer, I have had okay luck with solid,
> > high-quality cork - although two recent good wines I bought had good
> > corks and ... they were badly corked!!  More and more I am getting
> > partial to the screwcap.  I definitely dislike synthetic corks - I
> > get a vinyl-like plasticky thing in many of the wines; reds taste
> > strangely thin under these plastic corks.  And besides, what do fake
> > corks do that a screwcap can't do better?
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: John
> > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:26:12 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
> >
> > Most of the manufacturers of synthetic corks originally had some
> > problems which may have ben addressed. The hard plastic corks
> > (Supreme?) were dificult to remove and provided too much of a seal. 
> > Noma had their share of problems as well. We tested them and had
> > oxidation problems, the skin curled up when inserted into the bottle,
> > leakers, etc. They now have resolved most of these issues, I believe. 
> > They have 4 different ones that I am familiar with. The cheapest is
> > really only for maximum 12 month storage so you have to choose the
> > correct one to suit your needs. Sabate made the Altec and had lots of
> > TCA problems that took years to resolve, but now they have a
> > reasonably priced synthetic called the Diam and I have used them as
> > an amateur for years. The KW Winemakers Club has gone through 20 or
> > 30 thousand of these with no problems that I am aware of. Several
> > wineries in the area use them.   At Kacaba, we use only good quality
> > corks (cost about $.50 ea). If we were to choose an alternative , we
> > woud go screw cap. We sell to a lot of licencees (restaraunts) and
> > they tell us that they and their customers prefer corks first, then
> > screw cap and finally synthetics.   John
> >
> > -------------------------
> > http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/
> > -------------------------
> > Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. 
> 
> 
> 
> Mauro Scarsellone
> Ridgepoint Wines
> 3900 Cherry Avenue
> Vineland, ON
> L0R 2C0
> _______________________________________________
> Growwine mailing list
> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine


From terry.rayner at sympatico.ca  Tue Nov 13 17:14:03 2007
From: terry.rayner at sympatico.ca (Terry Rayner)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:14:03 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
References: <6e6cfq$41h99@ip04.eastlink.ca>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP115FB5561CC6541082154CE4800@CEZ.ICE>

For home use I switched from cork to Noma Cork about 3 yrs ago due to an increasing number of corked wines from the corks that I was using. So far no issues with the Noma Cork but they hard to put back into the bottle. Not too bad to take out.

For the winery we decided to use a good quality Ganau cork in part due to the perceptions by those purchasing wines wrt screw cap and synthetic corks. 

Terry
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: J & A Baker 
  To: Growwine 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 8:39 AM
  Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures


  I?m looking for some feedback on the above.

   

  After 26 years of using regular corks, with some nominal / occasional loss, I switched to Noma (synthetic) Corks.

   

  Now I am not certain that it was a good decision so I am hopeful of receiving some comments on others observations.  I have not experienced serious problems but I do have some concerns about freshness and possible oxidation.  I know that a western US winery undertook a 4 year study on closures and determined that screw caps were the best.  In fact, they even selected a particular type of screw cap to use in their winery.  Unfortunately, screw caps do not appear to be a reasonable option for home winemakers.

   

  As a part of that comment they alluded to the fact that synthetic corks might be TOO tight, locking in an amount of oxygen when it is corked.  Maybe my concern is unwarranted but observations of others would be appreciated.

   

  Many thanks,

   

  Alan Baker



  No virus found in this outgoing message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.30/1127 - Release Date: 11/12/2007 9:19 PM




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
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From paul at vivezza.com  Tue Nov 13 17:19:24 2007
From: paul at vivezza.com (Paul Troop)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:19:24 -0800
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
References: <6e6cfq$41h99@ip04.eastlink.ca>
	<47159DDD-F221-4EE1-A1DD-8A62CF0E6D84@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <006601c82643$40c31450$6401a8c0@acer684c9a655d>

For small lot winemaking the crown cap is hard to beat. As a winery we decided to go with screw cap after too many 50+cent cork failures. You don't have to have many cork failures to justify the screwcap machine. 

I will agree with the opinion that screwcaps are not a total solution, you do have to know how to adjust them and the wine really does need to be made well -- but then why wouldn't it be? 

I've seen problems with all closures including Diam, natural, screw caps, crown caps and synthetics. Yes there are a couple of other esoteric closures to consider but for home winemakers I'd vote for either crown caps or Diam. 

Paul
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wayne Holland 
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 7:30 AM
  Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures


  For the home winemaker  I advise regular crown caps. I have been using them since the '80's with complete satisfaction and no losses whatsoever. 


  Test: 1986 Zinfandel was made. A year in old barrel with charred oak sticks added. A very promising wine. Several bottles were crown capped with matching 6 cm corked bottles. They have been opened over the years with interested friends and compared and the cap has ALWAYS been the preferred one, if any difference could be noted. Luck has held and all corks remained sound. The last pair were put to the test 2 years ago. Same results.


  Finding appropriate bottles can be a chore as many bottle return depots are now computerized and don't or won't sell bottles to the public. Best bottles are Andres sparkling wine. Tall Riesling 750 mL shape. Also avail in magnum 1.5 L size. NZ Steinlager is a 750  mL bottle that is very satisfactory. I also am quite fond of the clear Corona bottles for ros? or blush wines. They are 330 mL except in the US where they are 355 mL. Also made in 650 mL. Many other beer companies make large format product in the mid 600 mL size and if you can settle in on one size it helps so you don't have to adjust your capper height all the time.


  Note that a slight re-ferment in these strong bottles will not be a problem. You will just have a bit of champagne.


  Crown cap at a penny vs (good) cork at a quarter. Another bonus is that bottles can be stored upright on your cellar shelves which suits me, and sediment settles out on the BOTTOM of the bottle.


  I do cork a few that are to be gifts to people because I don't want to give my good crown cap types away. Some folks are good returners, but most that leave are on a one way trip.


  Last point. A sharpie pen can put a full ID on the cap. No label required.


  regards, wayne

  On 13-Nov-07, at 5:39 AM, J & A Baker wrote:


    I?m looking for some feedback on the above.



    After 26 years of using regular corks, with some nominal / occasional loss, I switched to Noma (synthetic) Corks.



    Now I am not certain that it was a good decision so I am hopeful of receiving some comments on others observations.  I have not experienced serious problems but I do have some concerns about freshness and possible oxidation.  I know that a western US winery undertook a 4 year study on closures and determined that screw caps were the best.  In fact, they even selected a particular type of screw cap to use in their winery.  Unfortunately, screw caps do not appear to be a reasonable option for home winemakers.



    As a part of that comment they alluded to the fact that synthetic corks might be TOO tight, locking in an amount of oxygen when it is corked.  Maybe my concern is unwarranted but observations of others would be appreciated.



    Many thanks,



    Alan Baker



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From terry.rayner at sympatico.ca  Tue Nov 13 17:21:02 2007
From: terry.rayner at sympatico.ca (Terry Rayner)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:21:02 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
References: <387717.66568.qm@web56815.mail.re3.yahoo.com><20071113171457.nls2xm7ukw8s8ck0@webmail.easyhosting.com>
	<1194991831.7115.8.camel@teak>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP036D91749BAB8EF3432227E4800@CEZ.ICE>

Ryan, I know that you can buy from Ganau but it has to be a minimum of 1000. 
If you're interested I'll give you the contact info.

Terry
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ryan Daum" <ryan at darksleep.com>
To: <growwine at littlefatwino.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures


>I don't suppose corks of this type are available to the amateur market
> at all?  What if a group of amateurs were to buy together?
>
> Ryan
>
> On Tue, 2007-11-13 at 17:14 -0400, mauro at ridgepointwines.com wrote:
>> Paul
>>
>> We at RIdgepoint wines decided not to go to screw caps. They have their
>> own set
>> of problems that dont get mentioned too often.  You have to also ensure 
>> the
>> capper is working properly to ensure there was a proper seal.  We moved 
>> to the
>> Diam cork, which is considered a Technical Cork.  Its natural cork that 
>> been
>> ground up, washed in a liquid co2 bath and then glued back together with 
>> an
>> inert glue.  THis process also results in every cork being identical and
>> therefore no bottle variations exists.  At the end of the day we have
>> cork that
>> is guaranteed cork taint free and allows the wine to age gracefully.  In
>> addition, cork supports cork farming and has a lower carbon footprint 
>> then
>> screw caps
>>
>> Mauro
>> Ridgepoint Wines
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting Paul Bulas <pabls at yahoo.com>:
>>
>> > I will add that as a consumer, I have had okay luck with solid,
>> > high-quality cork - although two recent good wines I bought had good
>> > corks and ... they were badly corked!!  More and more I am getting
>> > partial to the screwcap.  I definitely dislike synthetic corks - I
>> > get a vinyl-like plasticky thing in many of the wines; reds taste
>> > strangely thin under these plastic corks.  And besides, what do fake
>> > corks do that a screwcap can't do better?
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----
>> > From: John
>> > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:26:12 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
>> >
>> > Most of the manufacturers of synthetic corks originally had some
>> > problems which may have ben addressed. The hard plastic corks
>> > (Supreme?) were dificult to remove and provided too much of a seal.
>> > Noma had their share of problems as well. We tested them and had
>> > oxidation problems, the skin curled up when inserted into the bottle,
>> > leakers, etc. They now have resolved most of these issues, I believe.
>> > They have 4 different ones that I am familiar with. The cheapest is
>> > really only for maximum 12 month storage so you have to choose the
>> > correct one to suit your needs. Sabate made the Altec and had lots of
>> > TCA problems that took years to resolve, but now they have a
>> > reasonably priced synthetic called the Diam and I have used them as
>> > an amateur for years. The KW Winemakers Club has gone through 20 or
>> > 30 thousand of these with no problems that I am aware of. Several
>> > wineries in the area use them.   At Kacaba, we use only good quality
>> > corks (cost about $.50 ea). If we were to choose an alternative , we
>> > woud go screw cap. We sell to a lot of licencees (restaraunts) and
>> > they tell us that they and their customers prefer corks first, then
>> > screw cap and finally synthetics.   John
>> >
>> > -------------------------
>> > http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/
>> > -------------------------
>> > Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mauro Scarsellone
>> Ridgepoint Wines
>> 3900 Cherry Avenue
>> Vineland, ON
>> L0R 2C0
>> _______________________________________________
>> Growwine mailing list
>> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
>> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
>
> _______________________________________________
> Growwine mailing list
> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine 


From paul at vivezza.com  Tue Nov 13 17:22:32 2007
From: paul at vivezza.com (Paul Troop)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:22:32 -0800
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
References: <387717.66568.qm@web56815.mail.re3.yahoo.com><20071113171457.nls2xm7ukw8s8ck0@webmail.easyhosting.com>
	<1194991831.7115.8.camel@teak>
Message-ID: <007501c82644$6553c700$6401a8c0@acer684c9a655d>

Diam is available through http://www.oeneoclosuresusa.com I believe you have 
to purchase 1000. the price delivered should be about 20 - 25 cents.

Paul
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ryan Daum" <ryan at darksleep.com>
To: <growwine at littlefatwino.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures


>I don't suppose corks of this type are available to the amateur market
> at all?  What if a group of amateurs were to buy together?
>
> Ryan
>
> On Tue, 2007-11-13 at 17:14 -0400, mauro at ridgepointwines.com wrote:
>> Paul
>>
>> We at RIdgepoint wines decided not to go to screw caps. They have their
>> own set
>> of problems that dont get mentioned too often.  You have to also ensure 
>> the
>> capper is working properly to ensure there was a proper seal.  We moved 
>> to the
>> Diam cork, which is considered a Technical Cork.  Its natural cork that 
>> been
>> ground up, washed in a liquid co2 bath and then glued back together with 
>> an
>> inert glue.  THis process also results in every cork being identical and
>> therefore no bottle variations exists.  At the end of the day we have
>> cork that
>> is guaranteed cork taint free and allows the wine to age gracefully.  In
>> addition, cork supports cork farming and has a lower carbon footprint 
>> then
>> screw caps
>>
>> Mauro
>> Ridgepoint Wines
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting Paul Bulas <pabls at yahoo.com>:
>>
>> > I will add that as a consumer, I have had okay luck with solid,
>> > high-quality cork - although two recent good wines I bought had good
>> > corks and ... they were badly corked!!  More and more I am getting
>> > partial to the screwcap.  I definitely dislike synthetic corks - I
>> > get a vinyl-like plasticky thing in many of the wines; reds taste
>> > strangely thin under these plastic corks.  And besides, what do fake
>> > corks do that a screwcap can't do better?
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----
>> > From: John
>> > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:26:12 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
>> >
>> > Most of the manufacturers of synthetic corks originally had some
>> > problems which may have ben addressed. The hard plastic corks
>> > (Supreme?) were dificult to remove and provided too much of a seal.
>> > Noma had their share of problems as well. We tested them and had
>> > oxidation problems, the skin curled up when inserted into the bottle,
>> > leakers, etc. They now have resolved most of these issues, I believe.
>> > They have 4 different ones that I am familiar with. The cheapest is
>> > really only for maximum 12 month storage so you have to choose the
>> > correct one to suit your needs. Sabate made the Altec and had lots of
>> > TCA problems that took years to resolve, but now they have a
>> > reasonably priced synthetic called the Diam and I have used them as
>> > an amateur for years. The KW Winemakers Club has gone through 20 or
>> > 30 thousand of these with no problems that I am aware of. Several
>> > wineries in the area use them.   At Kacaba, we use only good quality
>> > corks (cost about $.50 ea). If we were to choose an alternative , we
>> > woud go screw cap. We sell to a lot of licencees (restaraunts) and
>> > they tell us that they and their customers prefer corks first, then
>> > screw cap and finally synthetics.   John
>> >
>> > -------------------------
>> > http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/
>> > -------------------------
>> > Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mauro Scarsellone
>> Ridgepoint Wines
>> 3900 Cherry Avenue
>> Vineland, ON
>> L0R 2C0
>> _______________________________________________
>> Growwine mailing list
>> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
>> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
>
> _______________________________________________
> Growwine mailing list
> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine 


From terry.rayner at sympatico.ca  Tue Nov 13 17:31:05 2007
From: terry.rayner at sympatico.ca (Terry Rayner)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:31:05 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
References: <387717.66568.qm@web56815.mail.re3.yahoo.com><20071113171457.nls2xm7ukw8s8ck0@webmail.easyhosting.com><1194991831.7115.8.camel@teak>
	<007501c82644$6553c700$6401a8c0@acer684c9a655d>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP099B64DB687691801E9F62E4800@CEZ.ICE>

We looked into the Diam cork and got samples from Gail Hildred but we 
weren't happy with the look of the cork.

Terry
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Troop" <paul at vivezza.com>
To: <growwine at littlefatwino.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures


> Diam is available through http://www.oeneoclosuresusa.com I believe you 
> have
> to purchase 1000. the price delivered should be about 20 - 25 cents.
>
> Paul
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ryan Daum" <ryan at darksleep.com>
> To: <growwine at littlefatwino.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 2:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
>
>
>>I don't suppose corks of this type are available to the amateur market
>> at all?  What if a group of amateurs were to buy together?
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> On Tue, 2007-11-13 at 17:14 -0400, mauro at ridgepointwines.com wrote:
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> We at RIdgepoint wines decided not to go to screw caps. They have their
>>> own set
>>> of problems that dont get mentioned too often.  You have to also ensure
>>> the
>>> capper is working properly to ensure there was a proper seal.  We moved
>>> to the
>>> Diam cork, which is considered a Technical Cork.  Its natural cork that
>>> been
>>> ground up, washed in a liquid co2 bath and then glued back together with
>>> an
>>> inert glue.  THis process also results in every cork being identical and
>>> therefore no bottle variations exists.  At the end of the day we have
>>> cork that
>>> is guaranteed cork taint free and allows the wine to age gracefully.  In
>>> addition, cork supports cork farming and has a lower carbon footprint
>>> then
>>> screw caps
>>>
>>> Mauro
>>> Ridgepoint Wines
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting Paul Bulas <pabls at yahoo.com>:
>>>
>>> > I will add that as a consumer, I have had okay luck with solid,
>>> > high-quality cork - although two recent good wines I bought had good
>>> > corks and ... they were badly corked!!  More and more I am getting
>>> > partial to the screwcap.  I definitely dislike synthetic corks - I
>>> > get a vinyl-like plasticky thing in many of the wines; reds taste
>>> > strangely thin under these plastic corks.  And besides, what do fake
>>> > corks do that a screwcap can't do better?
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message ----
>>> > From: John
>>> > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:26:12 AM
>>> > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
>>> >
>>> > Most of the manufacturers of synthetic corks originally had some
>>> > problems which may have ben addressed. The hard plastic corks
>>> > (Supreme?) were dificult to remove and provided too much of a seal.
>>> > Noma had their share of problems as well. We tested them and had
>>> > oxidation problems, the skin curled up when inserted into the bottle,
>>> > leakers, etc. They now have resolved most of these issues, I believe.
>>> > They have 4 different ones that I am familiar with. The cheapest is
>>> > really only for maximum 12 month storage so you have to choose the
>>> > correct one to suit your needs. Sabate made the Altec and had lots of
>>> > TCA problems that took years to resolve, but now they have a
>>> > reasonably priced synthetic called the Diam and I have used them as
>>> > an amateur for years. The KW Winemakers Club has gone through 20 or
>>> > 30 thousand of these with no problems that I am aware of. Several
>>> > wineries in the area use them.   At Kacaba, we use only good quality
>>> > corks (cost about $.50 ea). If we were to choose an alternative , we
>>> > woud go screw cap. We sell to a lot of licencees (restaraunts) and
>>> > they tell us that they and their customers prefer corks first, then
>>> > screw cap and finally synthetics.   John
>>> >
>>> > -------------------------
>>> > http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/
>>> > -------------------------
>>> > Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mauro Scarsellone
>>> Ridgepoint Wines
>>> 3900 Cherry Avenue
>>> Vineland, ON
>>> L0R 2C0
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Growwine mailing list
>>> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
>>> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Growwine mailing list
>> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
>> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
>
> _______________________________________________
> Growwine mailing list
> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine 


From s.mailloux at sympatico.ca  Tue Nov 13 18:21:03 2007
From: s.mailloux at sympatico.ca (=?windows-1250?Q?S=E9bastien_Mailloux?=)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:21:03 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
References: <6e6cfq$41h99@ip04.eastlink.ca>
	<BAY113-DAV13CD8EB647B2D7CB624FE5A1800@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP092E9AF6403591D2BDDA4DEB800@CEZ.ICE>

I think there will never be a concensus about the best closures.  For example, I really love the Nomacorc synthetic closures and some, like Anthony, do not like them.  I have use many thousand of the Classic long chamfered Nomacorc over the last 6 years and I never had a single leaker.  I think that most closures type will have pros and cons and you have to find what suit your needs the best.  For example, I can't justify a high quality Natural cork because we are selling our wines rather cheap and I don't want to have TCA or corked wines issues.  I have tried many synthetic closures ( SupremeCork, NeoCork, Nucork and Nomacorc ) and the best for me in the lot is the Nomacorc.  

They are always in the top three synthetics closures of any study I have read. There are four different type of Nomacorc : Light ( 12 months ), Smart ( 24 months ), Classic ( 36 months ) and the Premium ( 60 months ).  You can get them in short or long version and chamfered or non-chamfered type.  

There is two problematic with the Nomacorc that I have found : 1) They do a complete seal in few seconds only which tend to compress the air over the surface of the wine if you don't have a vacuum corker.  This can lead to premature oxydation.  Two remedies for this : 1) Use a vacuum corker 2) Slightly increase the free So2 at bottling to compensate.   The second problem I have seen is the lipping where the outside material of the cork slightly fold back when you insert it.  What cause this is not the cork but the corker.  You can also see this with natural cork but it's just less apparent.  A solution is to use the chamfered type but it's not perfect solution...just better.  The perfect solution is to use an electric corker.  It might work with a pneumatic but electric are better because they are faster to insert the cork and this is where the problem happen.  This problem is only a visual one and does not affect the sealing capacity.  

I have done lot's of reading and research on the Nomacorc and a little also on the other synthetics closures.  I have talk with few technical specialists from Nomacorc to find theses answers.  

S?bastien Mailloux
Winemaker
Domaine & Vins G?linas
Vignoble St-Nicholas
Vignoble Pr?mont
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: CanadaVintage 
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 7:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures


  I do not stand behind Noma Corc.  They leak, trap air and are down right hated in the restaurant industry by sommeliers.

  Anthony Carone
  www.caronewines.com




    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: J & A Baker 
    To: Growwine 
    Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:39 AM
    Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures


    I?m looking for some feedback on the above.

     

    After 26 years of using regular corks, with some nominal / occasional loss, I switched to Noma (synthetic) Corks.

     

    Now I am not certain that it was a good decision so I am hopeful of receiving some comments on others observations.  I have not experienced serious problems but I do have some concerns about freshness and possible oxidation.  I know that a western US winery undertook a 4 year study on closures and determined that screw caps were the best.  In fact, they even selected a particular type of screw cap to use in their winery.  Unfortunately, screw caps do not appear to be a reasonable option for home winemakers.

     

    As a part of that comment they alluded to the fact that synthetic corks might be TOO tight, locking in an amount of oxygen when it is corked.  Maybe my concern is unwarranted but observations of others would be appreciated.

     

    Many thanks,

     

    Alan Baker



    No virus found in this outgoing message.
    Checked by AVG Free Edition.
    Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.30/1127 - Release Date: 11/12/2007 9:19 PM




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From laura-sabourin at sympatico.ca  Tue Nov 13 18:39:00 2007
From: laura-sabourin at sympatico.ca (Laura)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:39:00 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast
References: <008901c8260d$640c09c0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP11EAB279660EE3EFD2982BE8800@CEZ.ICE>

where did you buy it Lardy ? 

Laura 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Larry Paterson 
  To: Growwine List 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:40 AM
  Subject: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast


  Hi everyone:

  I've been using encapsulated yeast (from Scott Labs, see  http://www.scottlab.com/products/fermentation/yeast.asp#encapsulated

  they've loaded a better users guide at  http://www.scottlab.com/products/fermentation/documents/UsersguideforProElif.pdf    

  I've been using some of the leftovers from last year (which seem to have survived well in my fridge) to do some unique fermentations.  I started by putting the probably 30 grams of ProElif DV 10 into the four litres plus of really nice ripe Vidal from the end of my house in Peterborough.  When this was down to a nice residual sugar (around 4 per cent sugar right now, may take it a bit farther yet) I ran the wine through a new coffee filter, trapping the encapsulated yeast easily.  

  This yeast, which was somewhat larger than it started, was then added to four litres of apple juice, and quickly fermented this dry.  At this point, I took the yeast and added it into two litres of reverse-osmosis water.  Also, I put in 12 grams of tartaric acid, and 400 grams of sugar, and about 1.5 grams of fermaid.  This made it 20% sugar, with 6 grams per litre of acidity, and an incredible pH of about 2.3.  This too fermented quickly and the now-much-larger yeast beads are fermenting another four litres of water, without benefit of yeast nutrient this time.

  http://littlefatwino.com/temporary1.jpg

  http://littlefatwino.com/temporary2.jpg

  http://littlefatwino.com/temporary3.jpg

  The process is much like a sixties lava lamp, with beads rising and falling all over the carboy.  Amazing to watch.  Can't wait to explore uses for this water wine.  Can't imagine anything further happening when it is just reverse-osmosis water, a bit of acid and some alcohol.  May be perfect general-purpose topup wine!  (and how about running this through the coffee maker to serve to overnight wino guests who may have had a slight excess)

  comments?

  Lardy

  Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
  (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

  http://www.littlefatwino.com/




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From derek at pointerstop.ca  Tue Nov 13 11:05:22 2007
From: derek at pointerstop.ca (Derek Broughton)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:05:22 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
In-Reply-To: <47159DDD-F221-4EE1-A1DD-8A62CF0E6D84@shaw.ca>
References: <6e6cfq$41h99@ip04.eastlink.ca>
	<47159DDD-F221-4EE1-A1DD-8A62CF0E6D84@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <200711131205.22709.derek@pointerstop.ca>

On November 13, 2007 11:30:01 Wayne Holland wrote:
> For the home winemaker  I advise regular crown caps. I have been
> using them since the '80's with complete satisfaction and no losses
> whatsoever.

Very interesting.  We've been using crown caps for final closures on sparkling 
wines, but never considered it for regular bottling.
-- 
derek

From paul at vivezza.com  Tue Nov 13 18:56:23 2007
From: paul at vivezza.com (Paul Troop)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:56:23 -0800
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
References: <387717.66568.qm@web56815.mail.re3.yahoo.com><20071113171457.nls2xm7ukw8s8ck0@webmail.easyhosting.com><1194991831.7115.8.camel@teak><007501c82644$6553c700$6401a8c0@acer684c9a655d>
	<BAYC1-PASMTP099B64DB687691801E9F62E4800@CEZ.ICE>
Message-ID: <00a001c82651$006366e0$6401a8c0@acer684c9a655d>

Several wineries on the coast are using Diam with good results. The physical 
appearance is certainly a consideration for a commercial situation. I intend 
on using them for a winery that is not in favour of screw caps.

Paul
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Terry Rayner" <terry.rayner at sympatico.ca>
To: <growwine at littlefatwino.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures


> We looked into the Diam cork and got samples from Gail Hildred but we
> weren't happy with the look of the cork.
>
> Terry
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Paul Troop" <paul at vivezza.com>
> To: <growwine at littlefatwino.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
>
>
>> Diam is available through http://www.oeneoclosuresusa.com I believe you
>> have
>> to purchase 1000. the price delivered should be about 20 - 25 cents.
>>
>> Paul
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Ryan Daum" <ryan at darksleep.com>
>> To: <growwine at littlefatwino.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 2:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
>>
>>
>>>I don't suppose corks of this type are available to the amateur market
>>> at all?  What if a group of amateurs were to buy together?
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> On Tue, 2007-11-13 at 17:14 -0400, mauro at ridgepointwines.com wrote:
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> We at RIdgepoint wines decided not to go to screw caps. They have their
>>>> own set
>>>> of problems that dont get mentioned too often.  You have to also ensure
>>>> the
>>>> capper is working properly to ensure there was a proper seal.  We moved
>>>> to the
>>>> Diam cork, which is considered a Technical Cork.  Its natural cork that
>>>> been
>>>> ground up, washed in a liquid co2 bath and then glued back together 
>>>> with
>>>> an
>>>> inert glue.  THis process also results in every cork being identical 
>>>> and
>>>> therefore no bottle variations exists.  At the end of the day we have
>>>> cork that
>>>> is guaranteed cork taint free and allows the wine to age gracefully. 
>>>> In
>>>> addition, cork supports cork farming and has a lower carbon footprint
>>>> then
>>>> screw caps
>>>>
>>>> Mauro
>>>> Ridgepoint Wines
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Quoting Paul Bulas <pabls at yahoo.com>:
>>>>
>>>> > I will add that as a consumer, I have had okay luck with solid,
>>>> > high-quality cork - although two recent good wines I bought had good
>>>> > corks and ... they were badly corked!!  More and more I am getting
>>>> > partial to the screwcap.  I definitely dislike synthetic corks - I
>>>> > get a vinyl-like plasticky thing in many of the wines; reds taste
>>>> > strangely thin under these plastic corks.  And besides, what do fake
>>>> > corks do that a screwcap can't do better?
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message ----
>>>> > From: John
>>>> > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:26:12 AM
>>>> > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
>>>> >
>>>> > Most of the manufacturers of synthetic corks originally had some
>>>> > problems which may have ben addressed. The hard plastic corks
>>>> > (Supreme?) were dificult to remove and provided too much of a seal.
>>>> > Noma had their share of problems as well. We tested them and had
>>>> > oxidation problems, the skin curled up when inserted into the bottle,
>>>> > leakers, etc. They now have resolved most of these issues, I believe.
>>>> > They have 4 different ones that I am familiar with. The cheapest is
>>>> > really only for maximum 12 month storage so you have to choose the
>>>> > correct one to suit your needs. Sabate made the Altec and had lots of
>>>> > TCA problems that took years to resolve, but now they have a
>>>> > reasonably priced synthetic called the Diam and I have used them as
>>>> > an amateur for years. The KW Winemakers Club has gone through 20 or
>>>> > 30 thousand of these with no problems that I am aware of. Several
>>>> > wineries in the area use them.   At Kacaba, we use only good quality
>>>> > corks (cost about $.50 ea). If we were to choose an alternative , we
>>>> > woud go screw cap. We sell to a lot of licencees (restaraunts) and
>>>> > they tell us that they and their customers prefer corks first, then
>>>> > screw cap and finally synthetics.   John
>>>> >
>>>> > -------------------------
>>>> > http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/
>>>> > -------------------------
>>>> > Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mauro Scarsellone
>>>> Ridgepoint Wines
>>>> 3900 Cherry Avenue
>>>> Vineland, ON
>>>> L0R 2C0
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Growwine mailing list
>>>> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
>>>> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Growwine mailing list
>>> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
>>> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Growwine mailing list
>> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
>> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
>
> _______________________________________________
> Growwine mailing list
> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine 


From paul at vivezza.com  Tue Nov 13 18:58:30 2007
From: paul at vivezza.com (Paul Troop)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:58:30 -0800
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
References: <6e6cfq$41h99@ip04.eastlink.ca><47159DDD-F221-4EE1-A1DD-8A62CF0E6D84@shaw.ca>
	<200711131205.22709.derek@pointerstop.ca>
Message-ID: <00a501c82651$2ac10b40$6401a8c0@acer684c9a655d>

Venturi-Schulze uses  crown caps on all wines except a 375 ml bottle they 
can't get in a style they like with a crown closure. They use 29 mm caps.

http://www.venturischulze.com/

Paul
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Derek Broughton" <derek at pointerstop.ca>
To: <growwine at littlefatwino.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures


> On November 13, 2007 11:30:01 Wayne Holland wrote:
>> For the home winemaker  I advise regular crown caps. I have been
>> using them since the '80's with complete satisfaction and no losses
>> whatsoever.
>
> Very interesting.  We've been using crown caps for final closures on 
> sparkling
> wines, but never considered it for regular bottling.
> -- 
> derek
> _______________________________________________
> Growwine mailing list
> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine 


From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca  Tue Nov 13 19:09:48 2007
From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:09:48 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast
References: <008901c8260d$640c09c0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
	<BAYC1-PASMTP11EAB279660EE3EFD2982BE8800@CEZ.ICE>
Message-ID: <012301c82652$f152ac40$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>

The yeast was ordered from Scott Labs, and cost about $280 delivered for a kilo.  It was a pain to get it here, I don't think anyone else in Canada is using it.  I've ordered it three years running, and it's wonderful stuff as long as you keep free SO2 very low.

Lardy

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

http://www.littlefatwino.com/


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Laura 
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast


where did you buy it Lardy ? 

Laura 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Larry Paterson 
  To: Growwine List 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:40 AM
  Subject: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast


  Hi everyone:

  I've been using encapsulated yeast (from Scott Labs, see  http://www.scottlab.com/products/fermentation/yeast.asp#encapsulated

  they've loaded a better users guide at  http://www.scottlab.com/products/fermentation/documents/UsersguideforProElif.pdf    

  I've been using some of the leftovers from last year (which seem to have survived well in my fridge) to do some unique fermentations.  I started by putting the probably 30 grams of ProElif DV 10 into the four litres plus of really nice ripe Vidal from the end of my house in Peterborough.  When this was down to a nice residual sugar (around 4 per cent sugar right now, may take it a bit farther yet) I ran the wine through a new coffee filter, trapping the encapsulated yeast easily.  

  This yeast, which was somewhat larger than it started, was then added to four litres of apple juice, and quickly fermented this dry.  At this point, I took the yeast and added it into two litres of reverse-osmosis water.  Also, I put in 12 grams of tartaric acid, and 400 grams of sugar, and about 1.5 grams of fermaid.  This made it 20% sugar, with 6 grams per litre of acidity, and an incredible pH of about 2.3.  This too fermented quickly and the now-much-larger yeast beads are fermenting another four litres of water, without benefit of yeast nutrient this time.

  http://littlefatwino.com/temporary1.jpg

  http://littlefatwino.com/temporary2.jpg

  http://littlefatwino.com/temporary3.jpg

  The process is much like a sixties lava lamp, with beads rising and falling all over the carboy.  Amazing to watch.  Can't wait to explore uses for this water wine.  Can't imagine anything further happening when it is just reverse-osmosis water, a bit of acid and some alcohol.  May be perfect general-purpose topup wine!  (and how about running this through the coffee maker to serve to overnight wino guests who may have had a slight excess)

  comments?

  Lardy

  Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
  (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

  http://www.littlefatwino.com/




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Growwine at littlefatwino.com
http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
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From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca  Tue Nov 13 19:11:43 2007
From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:11:43 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
References: <6e6cfq$41h99@ip04.eastlink.ca><47159DDD-F221-4EE1-A1DD-8A62CF0E6D84@shaw.ca>
	<200711131205.22709.derek@pointerstop.ca>
Message-ID: <012401c82652$f1899ac0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>

I know one person who is using and re-using Champagne style plastic corks 
for wines that will be consumed within a year, boiling them after first 
usage.  Seems to work for early consumption wines.  At around 10 cents each, 
and apparently reusable, this comes to be a very inexpensive option.  I 
certainly wouldn't suggest it with top wines or for longer periods!

Lardy

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

http://www.littlefatwino.com/


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Derek Broughton" <derek at pointerstop.ca>
To: <growwine at littlefatwino.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures


On November 13, 2007 11:30:01 Wayne Holland wrote:
> For the home winemaker  I advise regular crown caps. I have been
> using them since the '80's with complete satisfaction and no losses
> whatsoever.

Very interesting.  We've been using crown caps for final closures on 
sparkling
wines, but never considered it for regular bottling.
-- 
derek
_______________________________________________
Growwine mailing list
Growwine at littlefatwino.com
http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine 


From paul at vivezza.com  Tue Nov 13 19:13:59 2007
From: paul at vivezza.com (Paul Troop)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:13:59 -0800
Subject: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast
References: <008901c8260d$640c09c0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C><BAYC1-PASMTP11EAB279660EE3EFD2982BE8800@CEZ.ICE>
	<012301c82652$f152ac40$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <00b801c82653$46808cf0$6401a8c0@acer684c9a655d>

Starling Lane Winery used it in there bubbly. I will try it this year. 
http://www.starlinglanewinery.com/

Paul
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Larry Paterson 
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 4:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast


  The yeast was ordered from Scott Labs, and cost about $280 delivered for a kilo.  It was a pain to get it here, I don't think anyone else in Canada is using it.  I've ordered it three years running, and it's wonderful stuff as long as you keep free SO2 very low.

  Lardy

  Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
  (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

  http://www.littlefatwino.com/


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Laura 
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 6:39 PM
  Subject: Re: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast


  where did you buy it Lardy ? 

  Laura 
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Larry Paterson 
    To: Growwine List 
    Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:40 AM
    Subject: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast


    Hi everyone:

    I've been using encapsulated yeast (from Scott Labs, see  http://www.scottlab.com/products/fermentation/yeast.asp#encapsulated

    they've loaded a better users guide at  http://www.scottlab.com/products/fermentation/documents/UsersguideforProElif.pdf    

    I've been using some of the leftovers from last year (which seem to have survived well in my fridge) to do some unique fermentations.  I started by putting the probably 30 grams of ProElif DV 10 into the four litres plus of really nice ripe Vidal from the end of my house in Peterborough.  When this was down to a nice residual sugar (around 4 per cent sugar right now, may take it a bit farther yet) I ran the wine through a new coffee filter, trapping the encapsulated yeast easily.  

    This yeast, which was somewhat larger than it started, was then added to four litres of apple juice, and quickly fermented this dry.  At this point, I took the yeast and added it into two litres of reverse-osmosis water.  Also, I put in 12 grams of tartaric acid, and 400 grams of sugar, and about 1.5 grams of fermaid.  This made it 20% sugar, with 6 grams per litre of acidity, and an incredible pH of about 2.3.  This too fermented quickly and the now-much-larger yeast beads are fermenting another four litres of water, without benefit of yeast nutrient this time.

    http://littlefatwino.com/temporary1.jpg

    http://littlefatwino.com/temporary2.jpg

    http://littlefatwino.com/temporary3.jpg

    The process is much like a sixties lava lamp, with beads rising and falling all over the carboy.  Amazing to watch.  Can't wait to explore uses for this water wine.  Can't imagine anything further happening when it is just reverse-osmosis water, a bit of acid and some alcohol.  May be perfect general-purpose topup wine!  (and how about running this through the coffee maker to serve to overnight wino guests who may have had a slight excess)

    comments?

    Lardy

    Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
    (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

    http://www.littlefatwino.com/




----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    _______________________________________________
    Growwine mailing list
    Growwine at littlefatwino.com
    http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
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From shelby at plasmatec.com  Tue Nov 13 21:02:16 2007
From: shelby at plasmatec.com (=?utf-8?B?U2hlbGJ5?=)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 02:02:16 +0000
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures
Message-ID: <188527403-1195005732-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1075291414-@bxe024.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Pls take me off the list.

Thank you.


------Original Message------
From: Larry Paterson
Sender: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
ReplyTo: growwine at littlefatwino.com
Sent: Nov 13, 2007 19:11
Subject: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures

I know one person who is using and re-using Champagne style plastic corks
for wines that will be consumed within a year, boiling them after first
usage.  Seems to work for early consumption wines.  At around 10 cents each,
and apparently reusable, this comes to be a very inexpensive option.  I
certainly wouldn't suggest it with top wines or for longer periods!

Lardy

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

http://www.littlefatwino.com/


----- Original Message -----
From: "Derek Broughton" <derek at pointerstop.ca>
To: <growwine at littlefatwino.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Wine Bottle Closures


On November 13, 2007 11:30:01 Wayne Holland wrote:
> For the home winemaker  I advise regular crown caps. I have been
> using them since the '80's with complete satisfaction and no losses
> whatsoever.

Very interesting.  We've been using crown caps for final closures on
sparkling
wines, but never considered it for regular bottling.
--
derek
_______________________________________________
Growwine mailing list
Growwine at littlefatwino.com
http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine

_______________________________________________
Growwine mailing list
Growwine at littlefatwino.com
http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine


From scott.dolson at sympatico.ca  Tue Nov 13 21:30:45 2007
From: scott.dolson at sympatico.ca (Scott Dolson)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:30:45 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast
References: <008901c8260d$640c09c0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <006901c82668$e412f100$6192d1d8@DolsonFamily>

Substitute the 400 grams of sugar with about 600 grams of good quality local honey, and you will have a nice mead... also good for top-ups and Sunday morning coffee water placebos!

Cheers
Scott

Scott & Helle-Mai Dolson
1073 Line 11 North, R.R. # 1
Hawkestone, Ontario.
Canada, L0L 1T0
Ph: 705-487-5443
scott.dolson at sympatico.ca
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Larry Paterson 
  To: Growwine List 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:40 AM
  Subject: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast


  Hi everyone:

  I've been using encapsulated yeast (from Scott Labs, see  http://www.scottlab.com/products/fermentation/yeast.asp#encapsulated

  they've loaded a better users guide at  http://www.scottlab.com/products/fermentation/documents/UsersguideforProElif.pdf    

  I've been using some of the leftovers from last year (which seem to have survived well in my fridge) to do some unique fermentations.  I started by putting the probably 30 grams of ProElif DV 10 into the four litres plus of really nice ripe Vidal from the end of my house in Peterborough.  When this was down to a nice residual sugar (around 4 per cent sugar right now, may take it a bit farther yet) I ran the wine through a new coffee filter, trapping the encapsulated yeast easily.  

  This yeast, which was somewhat larger than it started, was then added to four litres of apple juice, and quickly fermented this dry.  At this point, I took the yeast and added it into two litres of reverse-osmosis water.  Also, I put in 12 grams of tartaric acid, and 400 grams of sugar, and about 1.5 grams of fermaid.  This made it 20% sugar, with 6 grams per litre of acidity, and an incredible pH of about 2.3.  This too fermented quickly and the now-much-larger yeast beads are fermenting another four litres of water, without benefit of yeast nutrient this time.

  http://littlefatwino.com/temporary1.jpg

  http://littlefatwino.com/temporary2.jpg

  http://littlefatwino.com/temporary3.jpg

  The process is much like a sixties lava lamp, with beads rising and falling all over the carboy.  Amazing to watch.  Can't wait to explore uses for this water wine.  Can't imagine anything further happening when it is just reverse-osmosis water, a bit of acid and some alcohol.  May be perfect general-purpose topup wine!  (and how about running this through the coffee maker to serve to overnight wino guests who may have had a slight excess)

  comments?

  Lardy

  Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
  (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

  http://www.littlefatwino.com/




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
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From cdtapling at tucker-usa.com  Tue Nov 13 23:28:59 2007
From: cdtapling at tucker-usa.com (Tapling)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 23:28:59 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] test
References: <00ea01c8257f$1dd17640$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <000501c8267b$cdb9fc10$ca8d4a44@D8GYFF61>

Yep'r do. Seems OK. Doug T
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Larry Paterson 
  To: Growwine List 
  Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 5:50 PM
  Subject: [Growwine] test


  After receiving more than 20 offlist replies it finally dawned on me that replies were redirected to the original poster rather than the list.  No telling how many messages disappeared into thin air this way...

  Would someone please hit reply to with this message to see if I have them properly redirected?

  sorry for the irritation, the list is much smarter than I am...

  thanks

  Lardy

  Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
  (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

  http://www.littlefatwino.com/




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
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From petersalonius at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 14 06:19:54 2007
From: petersalonius at hotmail.com (peter salonius)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 07:19:54 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast
In-Reply-To: <00b801c82653$46808cf0$6401a8c0@acer684c9a655d>
References: <008901c8260d$640c09c0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C><BAYC1-PASMTP11EAB279660EE3EFD2982BE8800@CEZ.ICE>
	<012301c82652$f152ac40$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> 
	<00b801c82653$46808cf0$6401a8c0@acer684c9a655d>
Message-ID: <BAY136-W3844856419B74DD796DC3CA9810@phx.gbl>


So Larrry or  Paul
 
Most of us can not use a KILOGRAM of yeast before its expiry date.
 
Is either of you willing to make small packages (small plastic bags with a twist tie)
to resell to interested experimenters? ---- now that you have already gone through the
pain of acquiring it.
 
Put me down for a package and let me know by return email the cost (I will send you the $$ in advance)
for a couple of grams PLUS POSTAGE.
 
Thanx in advance for considering this important service, I am
 
Peter Salonius
=====================================================
From: paul at vivezza.comTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:13:59 -0800Subject: Re: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast




Starling Lane Winery used it in there bubbly. I will try it this year. 
http://www.starlinglanewinery.com/
 
Paul

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Larry Paterson 
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast

The yeast was ordered from Scott Labs, and cost about $280 delivered for a kilo.  It was a pain to get it here, I don't think anyone else in Canada is using it.  I've ordered it three years running, and it's wonderful stuff as long as you keep free SO2 very low.
 
Lardy
 
Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)
 
http://www.littlefatwino.com/
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Laura 
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast

where did you buy it Lardy ? 
 
Laura 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Larry Paterson 
To: Growwine List 
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:40 AM
Subject: [Growwine] Encapsulated yeast

Hi everyone:
 
I've been using encapsulated yeast (from Scott Labs, see  http://www.scottlab.com/products/fermentation/yeast.asp#encapsulated
 
they've loaded a better users guide at  http://www.scottlab.com/products/fermentation/documents/UsersguideforProElif.pdf    
 
I've been using some of the leftovers from last year (which seem to have survived well in my fridge) to do some unique fermentations.  I started by putting the probably 30 grams of ProElif DV 10 into the four litres plus of really nice ripe Vidal from the end of my house in Peterborough.  When this was