From canadavintage at hotmail.com  Fri Aug  1 08:45:08 2008
From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (Canada Vintage)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 08:45:08 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP11D73B4EC2CF44DA873D55D87F0@phx.gbl>
References: <000001c8f353$a6de97e0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
	<BLU0-SMTP11D73B4EC2CF44DA873D55D87F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY113-W48B3DA904E837841F3E6DFA17F0@phx.gbl>


I am having a great deal of trouble finding a reliable supplier. Anyone have a good contact?  We need about 400-500 cedar posts 8ft long by 4 to 6 inches wide.
 
Thank-youAnthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~www.CanadaVintage.com~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_________________________________________________________________

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From jiml5 at nexicom.net  Fri Aug  1 09:38:29 2008
From: jiml5 at nexicom.net (Jim Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:38:29 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
References: <000001c8f353$a6de97e0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C><BLU0-SMTP11D73B4EC2CF44DA873D55D87F0@phx.gbl>
	<BAY113-W48B3DA904E837841F3E6DFA17F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7CCC3F8916D142B6919E6234E1B549E0@Lloyd>

There was a company in the Norwood ON area that processed cedar into posts. I can't think of the name or find it in the phone book. 

Larry, have you ever run into them ?

Jim. 
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From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca  Fri Aug  1 09:43:29 2008
From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 06:43:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
Message-ID: <261275.89121.qm@web32107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

There is a company Named Millars Cedar Posts Limited. RR 1 Mcdonalds Corners. Contact. John Millar.??1 613 278 2983



----- Original Message ----
From: Canada Vintage <canadavintage at hotmail.com>
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 8:45:08 AM
Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts

I am having a great deal of trouble finding a reliable supplier. Anyone have a good contact?? We need about 400-500 cedar posts 8ft long by 4 to 6 inches wide.
?
Thank-you

Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.CanadaVintage.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


________________________________



      
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From sebastienmailloux at cgocable.ca  Fri Aug  1 10:35:14 2008
From: sebastienmailloux at cgocable.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?S=E9bastien_Mailloux?=)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 10:35:14 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
References: <000001c8f353$a6de97e0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C><BLU0-SMTP11D73B4EC2CF44DA873D55D87F0@phx.gbl>
	<BAY113-W48B3DA904E837841F3E6DFA17F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <008201c8f3e3$cfec3a30$1701a8c0@Seb>

Anthony, I just ask my friend who bought a lot recently locally.  He have a good source that will be closer to you.  I will forward it to you once I got his response.

S?b
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Canada Vintage 
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 8:45 AM
  Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts


  I am having a great deal of trouble finding a reliable supplier. Anyone have a good contact?  We need about 400-500 cedar posts 8ft long by 4 to 6 inches wide.
   
  Thank-you

  Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
  Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  www.CanadaVintage.com
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



------------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine



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From redwine at charter.net  Fri Aug  1 11:52:35 2008
From: redwine at charter.net (Rob McDowell)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:52:35 -0500
Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
In-Reply-To: <008201c8f3e3$cfec3a30$1701a8c0@Seb>
References: <000001c8f353$a6de97e0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C><BLU0-SMTP11D73B4EC2CF44DA873D55D87F0@phx.gbl>	<BAY113-W48B3DA904E837841F3E6DFA17F0@phx.gbl>
	<008201c8f3e3$cfec3a30$1701a8c0@Seb>
Message-ID: <48933143.60602@charter.net>

What are you folks north of the 45th parallel paying for cedar posts?

Rob

S?bastien Mailloux wrote:
> Anthony, I just ask my friend who bought a lot recently locally.  He 
> have a good source that will be closer to you.  I will forward it to 
> you once I got his response.
>  
> S?b
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Canada Vintage <mailto:canadavintage at hotmail.com>
>     *To:* growwine at littlefatwino.com <mailto:growwine at littlefatwino.com>
>     *Sent:* Friday, August 01, 2008 8:45 AM
>     *Subject:* [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
>
>     I am having a great deal of trouble finding a reliable supplier.
>     Anyone have a good contact?  We need about 400-500 cedar posts 8ft
>     long by 4 to 6 inches wide.
>      
>     Thank-you
>
>     Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
>     Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises
>
>     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>     www.CanadaVintage.com <http://www.CanadaVintage.com>
>     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     _______________________________________________
>     Growwine mailing list
>     Growwine at littlefatwino.com
>     http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     No virus found in this incoming message.
>     Checked by AVG.
>     Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.9/1583 - Release Date:
>     2008-07-31 06:17
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Growwine mailing list
> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
>   



From kennebec at tlb.sympatico.ca  Fri Aug  1 11:16:43 2008
From: kennebec at tlb.sympatico.ca (Gilles Harbour)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:16:43 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
References: <000001c8f353$a6de97e0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C><BLU0-SMTP11D73B4EC2CF44DA873D55D87F0@phx.gbl>
	<BAY113-W48B3DA904E837841F3E6DFA17F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00a401c8f3e9$9bc88b40$7cf33745@kennebec>

Hi Anthony,

My supplier is delivering 140 of them to our vineyard, this afternoon. I'm gonna ask him if he can supply what you need. If you can go and get them in St-Anne-de-la-P?rade, the cost would be around $3.00. Delivered at my place in B?cancour, I pay $4.50. I already bought 400 of them and the quality and size are OK.

Gilles Harbour
Clos des Vieux Ch?nes
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Canada Vintage 
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 8:45 AM
  Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts


  I am having a great deal of trouble finding a reliable supplier. Anyone have a good contact?  We need about 400-500 cedar posts 8ft long by 4 to 6 inches wide.
   
  Thank-you

  Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
  Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  www.CanadaVintage.com
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



------------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
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From sebastienmailloux at cgocable.ca  Fri Aug  1 13:36:03 2008
From: sebastienmailloux at cgocable.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?S=E9bastien_Mailloux?=)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 13:36:03 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
References: <000001c8f353$a6de97e0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C><BLU0-SMTP11D73B4EC2CF44DA873D55D87F0@phx.gbl>
	<BAY113-W48B3DA904E837841F3E6DFA17F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00cb01c8f3fd$124f9520$1701a8c0@Seb>

Sorry Anthony I'm not able to reach the guys.  I think he buy it in Victoriaville but the prices from Gilles seem really good to me.

S?b
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Canada Vintage 
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 8:45 AM
  Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts


  I am having a great deal of trouble finding a reliable supplier. Anyone have a good contact?  We need about 400-500 cedar posts 8ft long by 4 to 6 inches wide.
   
  Thank-you

  Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
  Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  www.CanadaVintage.com
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



------------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine



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From jiml5 at nexicom.net  Fri Aug  1 16:24:37 2008
From: jiml5 at nexicom.net (Jim Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:24:37 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] National Post take on bottle plant closing
References: <000001c8f353$a6de97e0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
	<BLU0-SMTP11D73B4EC2CF44DA873D55D87F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8055408B75924AAF9918BF7EE7657595@Lloyd>

The plant in question is an old Consumers Glass facility. Probably 50 + years old. They are looking for reason to shut it down as it is probably antiquated. However, the LCBO is screwing us all around. As the latest article said. They cut down on their waste on a weigh basis, but help to generate a lot of scrap that is not easily recycled like glass is

I don't see any really good wines being raved about that come in tetra's or plastic. Probably never will. We get "swill" from other counties in this type of packaging

Jim
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From syl.helie at globetrotter.net  Fri Aug  1 17:20:13 2008
From: syl.helie at globetrotter.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Sylvain_H=E9lie?=)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:20:13 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
References: <000001c8f353$a6de97e0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
	<BLU0-SMTP11D73B4EC2CF44DA873D55D87F0@phx.gbl>
	<BAY113-W48B3DA904E837841F3E6DFA17F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <002f01c8f41c$630f7c40$0402a8c0@D9T2NDG1>

Anthony

Tamarack is better than cedar in strenght and durability....ask Alain Breault...
Ciao

Sylvain
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Canada Vintage 
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 8:45 AM
  Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts


  I am having a great deal of trouble finding a reliable supplier. Anyone have a good contact?  We need about 400-500 cedar posts 8ft long by 4 to 6 inches wide.
   
  Thank-you

  Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
  Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  www.CanadaVintage.com
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



------------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
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From canadavintage at hotmail.com  Fri Aug  1 17:47:11 2008
From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (Canada Vintage)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:47:11 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
In-Reply-To: <00a401c8f3e9$9bc88b40$7cf33745@kennebec>
References: <000001c8f353$a6de97e0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C><BLU0-SMTP11D73B4EC2CF44DA873D55D87F0@phx.gbl>
	<BAY113-W48B3DA904E837841F3E6DFA17F0@phx.gbl> 
	<00a401c8f3e9$9bc88b40$7cf33745@kennebec>
Message-ID: <BAY113-W557243187482D42500FB04A17F0@phx.gbl>


Thank-you Gilles,
If you can send me his coordinates that would be much appreciated.
Thank-you all for the help.
Ant
Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~www.CanadaVintage.com~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From: kennebec at tlb.sympatico.caTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:16:43 -0400Subject: Re: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts



Hi Anthony,
 
My supplier is delivering 140 of them to our vineyard, this afternoon. I'm gonna ask him if he can supply what you need. If you can go and get them in St-Anne-de-la-P?rade, the cost would be around $3.00. Delivered at my place in B?cancour, I pay $4.50. I already bought 400 of them and the quality and size are OK.
 
Gilles Harbour
Clos des Vieux Ch?nes

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Canada Vintage 
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 8:45 AM
Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
I am having a great deal of trouble finding a reliable supplier. Anyone have a good contact?  We need about 400-500 cedar posts 8ft long by 4 to 6 inches wide. Thank-youAnthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~www.CanadaVintage.com~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





_______________________________________________Growwine mailing listGrowwine at littlefatwino.comhttp://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
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From kennebec at tlb.sympatico.ca  Sat Aug  2 08:53:00 2008
From: kennebec at tlb.sympatico.ca (Gilles Harbour)
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 08:53:00 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
References: <000001c8f353$a6de97e0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C><BLU0-SMTP11D73B4EC2CF44DA873D55D87F0@phx.gbl><BAY113-W48B3DA904E837841F3E6DFA17F0@phx.gbl>
	<00a401c8f3e9$9bc88b40$7cf33745@kennebec>
	<BAY113-W557243187482D42500FB04A17F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00f501c8f49e$b28d6480$7cf33745@kennebec>

Hi Ant,

Call Donat Provencher
819 377-1940
Price went up to $4.00

Gilles
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Canada Vintage 
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 5:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts


  Thank-you Gilles,
  If you can send me his coordinates that would be much appreciated.
  Thank-you all for the help.
  Ant


  Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
  Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  www.CanadaVintage.com
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: kennebec at tlb.sympatico.ca
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
  Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:16:43 -0400
  Subject: Re: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts



  Hi Anthony,

  My supplier is delivering 140 of them to our vineyard, this afternoon. I'm gonna ask him if he can supply what you need. If you can go and get them in St-Anne-de-la-P?rade, the cost would be around $3.00. Delivered at my place in B?cancour, I pay $4.50. I already bought 400 of them and the quality and size are OK.

  Gilles Harbour
  Clos des Vieux Ch?nes
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Canada Vintage 
    To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
    Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 8:45 AM
    Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts


    I am having a great deal of trouble finding a reliable supplier. Anyone have a good contact?  We need about 400-500 cedar posts 8ft long by 4 to 6 inches wide.
     
    Thank-you

    Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
    Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    www.CanadaVintage.com
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


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    Growwine mailing list
    Growwine at littlefatwino.com
    http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine




------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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From harold.tracanelli at bellnet.ca  Sun Aug  3 08:28:47 2008
From: harold.tracanelli at bellnet.ca (Harold Tracanelli)
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 08:28:47 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
In-Reply-To: <002f01c8f41c$630f7c40$0402a8c0@D9T2NDG1>
Message-ID: <20080803122852.DTVH1705.tomts27-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip41-bus.srvr.bell.ca>

Sunday August 03rd., 2008

 

For those folks out there who are interested in Tamarack, also known as
Larch, many forestry companies up in northern Ontario cut for pulp.  Larger
Tamarack logs make good stringers under log camps, I would not be surprised
if not better than Cedar which is traditionally used.  

 

Anywhere from the Timmins areas west through to Kapuskasing and Hearst along
the Highway 11 corridor there are some very large areas of Tamarack where
there are presently forestry operations underway.  Up north folks typically
refer to the Tamarack as Pinett Rouge (sp?), which is also often burned for
firewood, mixed with Poplar and Birch.

 

Regards, 

 

Harold Tracanelli

  

 

  _____  

From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com
[mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Sylvain H?lie
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 5:20 PM
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts

 

Anthony

 

Tamarack is better than cedar in strenght and durability....ask Alain
Breault...

Ciao

 

Sylvain

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Canada <mailto:canadavintage at hotmail.com>  Vintage 

To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 

Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 8:45 AM

Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts

 

I am having a great deal of trouble finding a reliable supplier. Anyone have
a good contact?  We need about 400-500 cedar posts 8ft long by 4 to 6 inches
wide.
 
Thank-you

Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.CanadaVintage.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




  _____  





  _____  


_______________________________________________
Growwine mailing list
Growwine at littlefatwino.com
http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine

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From glenda at dccw.ca  Sun Aug  3 09:07:38 2008
From: glenda at dccw.ca (Glenda Baker)
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:37:38 -0230
Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
In-Reply-To: <20080803122852.DTVH1705.tomts27-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip41-bus.srvr.bell.ca>
References: <002f01c8f41c$630f7c40$0402a8c0@D9T2NDG1>
	<20080803122852.DTVH1705.tomts27-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip41-bus.srvr.bell.ca>
Message-ID: <000901c8f569$ee8abca0$cba035e0$@ca>

We use Tamarack also, purchased from a local mill, $3.00 per 10? pole. We
used to get it milled, (3?x3?, 3?x4? and 4?x4?) since they had to cut it
when clear cutting areas, otherwise they wouldn?t bother with it. However
since the mill is no longer fully functioning we can only get poles, still
it?s easier than cutting our own. It was the traditional wood for fence
posts around here. Lasts for ages!

 

Glenda in NL

 

From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com
[mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Harold Tracanelli
Sent: August 3, 2008 9:59 AM
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts

 

Sunday August 03rd., 2008

 

For those folks out there who are interested in Tamarack, also known as
Larch, many forestry companies up in northern Ontario cut for pulp.  Larger
Tamarack logs make good stringers under log camps, I would not be surprised
if not better than Cedar which is traditionally used.  

 

Anywhere from the Timmins areas west through to Kapuskasing and Hearst along
the Highway 11 corridor there are some very large areas of Tamarack where
there are presently forestry operations underway.  Up north folks typically
refer to the Tamarack as Pinett Rouge (sp?), which is also often burned for
firewood, mixed with Poplar and Birch.

 

Regards, 

 

Harold Tracanelli

  

 

  _____  

From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com
[mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Sylvain H?lie
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 5:20 PM
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts

 

Anthony

 

Tamarack is better than cedar in strenght and durability....ask Alain
Breault...

Ciao

 

Sylvain

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Canada Vintage <mailto:canadavintage at hotmail.com>  

To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 

Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 8:45 AM

Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts

 

I am having a great deal of trouble finding a reliable supplier. Anyone have
a good contact?  We need about 400-500 cedar posts 8ft long by 4 to 6 inches
wide.
 
Thank-you

Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.CanadaVintage.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


  _____  


 


  _____  


_______________________________________________
Growwine mailing list
Growwine at littlefatwino.com
http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine

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From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca  Sun Aug  3 10:15:48 2008
From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson)
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:15:48 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
References: <000001c8f353$a6de97e0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C><BLU0-SMTP11D73B4EC2CF44DA873D55D87F0@phx.gbl><BAY113-W48B3DA904E837841F3E6DFA17F0@phx.gbl>
	<7CCC3F8916D142B6919E6234E1B549E0@Lloyd>
Message-ID: <005401c8f573$b2c2bc90$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>

Jim

I have heard of them but have had no contact.

Lardy

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

http://www.littlefatwino.com/


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jim Lloyd 
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts


There was a company in the Norwood ON area that processed cedar into posts. I can't think of the name or find it in the phone book. 

Larry, have you ever run into them ?

Jim. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Growwine at littlefatwino.com
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From nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca  Sun Aug  3 10:48:42 2008
From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nicholas_Carri=E8re?=)
Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 10:48:42 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
Message-ID: <005601c8f578$062ad490$6501a8c0@hrdcdrhc.net>

Good morning,

 

I'm new in the viticulture field and I planted 200 new plants (Frontenac, Sabrevois, Louise Swenson and ES 6-16-30) in June. Unfortunately with all the rain we're having (30 days of rain in the last 2 months), I don't think they are going very well. After 2 months they are averaging 14 inches in height with some of them around 24 inches. Is this normal considering the weather? Does anyone have the same problem this year? In perfect conditions how tall should they be after 2 months?

 

Thanks

 

Nicholas Carri?re

Gatineau, Qc
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From canadavintage at hotmail.com  Sun Aug  3 11:19:07 2008
From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (Canada Vintage)
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 11:19:07 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
In-Reply-To: <005601c8f578$062ad490$6501a8c0@hrdcdrhc.net>
References: <005601c8f578$062ad490$6501a8c0@hrdcdrhc.net>
Message-ID: <BAY113-W2227E7779957B175991894A1790@phx.gbl>


You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. 
 
Pull a vine out and see if there is a whitish fungus growing on the roots. If so, 
then, I would expect you may have root rot occurring on account of all the water.
Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~www.CanadaVintage.com~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.caTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:48:42 -0400Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?




Good morning,
 
I?m new in the viticulture field and I planted 200 new plants (Frontenac, Sabrevois, Louise Swenson and ES 6-16-30) in June. Unfortunately with all the rain we're having (30 days of rain in the last 2 months), I don't think they are going very well. After 2 months they are averaging 14 inches in height with some of them around 24 inches. Is this normal considering the weather? Does anyone have the same problem this year? In perfect conditions how tall should they be after 2 months?
 
Thanks
 
Nicholas Carri?re
Gatineau, Qc
_________________________________________________________________

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From dbriden at magma.ca  Mon Aug  4 00:07:35 2008
From: dbriden at magma.ca (Doug Briden)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 00:07:35 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
Message-ID: <.1217822855@magma.ca>

 

	Anthony Carone wrote  You should be fine unless they are planted on
plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site.    I planted Frontenac
in plastic this spring ad I am in the process of installing trellis
due to the vigour of these plants most of which exceed 4 feet and many
over 6 feet. I can't cut the grass between the rows as the tops of the
vines have grown well beyond the planting stakes we put in to hold
them for the first year. The wood is already starting to harden off
nicely. Due to the amount of rain I have only irrigated twice this
year via drip tape beneath the plastic and the second irrigation was
primarily for feeding as the vines had enough water. I'll try to post
a few pictures this week if I get the time.   Cheers,   Doug.
Luskville,QC 
 On Sun 03/08/08 11:19 , Canada Vintage canadavintage at hotmail.com
sent:
    .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage {
FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma }  You should be fine unless they
are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. 
 Pull a vine out and see if there is a whitish fungus growing on the
roots. If so, 
 then, I would expect you may have root rot occurring on account of
all the water.
 Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
 Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 www.CanadaVintage.com
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-------------------------
 From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca
 To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
 Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:48:42 -0400
 Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
	Good morning, 
	I?m new in the viticulture field and I planted 200 new plants
(Frontenac, Sabrevois, Louise Swenson and ES 6-16-30) in June.
Unfortunately with all the rain we're having (30 days of rain in the
last 2 months), I don't think they are going very well. After 2 months
they are averaging 14 inches in height with some of them around 24
inches. Is this normal considering the weather? Does anyone have the
same problem this year? In perfect conditions how tall should they be
after 2 months?  
	Thanks 
	Nicholas Carri?re 

	Gatineau, Qc
-------------------------
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From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca  Mon Aug  4 08:20:00 2008
From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 08:20:00 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
References: <.1217822855@magma.ca>
Message-ID: <002501c8f62e$04d1b580$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>

Doug  a question

How far apart are your vines, and what spacing between the rows?  If you are feeding them more than a tiny amount you may end up spending the rest of your life with a hedge trimmer...

Lardy

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

http://www.littlefatwino.com/


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Doug Briden 
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 12:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?


Anthony Carone wrote 

You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. 

I planted Frontenac in plastic this spring ad I am in the process of installing trellis due to the vigour of these plants most of which exceed 4 feet and many over 6 feet. I can't cut the grass between the rows as the tops of the vines have grown well beyond the planting stakes we put in to hold them for the first year. The wood is already starting to harden off nicely. Due to the amount of rain I have only irrigated twice this year via drip tape beneath the plastic and the second irrigation was primarily for feeding as the vines had enough water. I'll try to post a few pictures this week if I get the time.

Cheers,

Doug.
Luskville,QC




On Sun 03/08/08 11:19 , Canada Vintage canadavintage at hotmail.com sent:

  You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. 
   
  Pull a vine out and see if there is a whitish fungus growing on the roots. If so, 
  then, I would expect you may have root rot occurring on account of all the water.


  Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
  Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  www.CanadaVintage.com
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
  Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:48:42 -0400
  Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?



  Good morning,



  I?m new in the viticulture field and I planted 200 new plants (Frontenac, Sabrevois, Louise Swenson and ES 6-16-30) in June. Unfortunately with all the rain we're having (30 days of rain in the last 2 months), I don't think they are going very well. After 2 months they are averaging 14 inches in height with some of them around 24 inches. Is this normal considering the weather? Does anyone have the same problem this year? In perfect conditions how tall should they be after 2 months? 



  Thanks



  Nicholas Carri?re

  Gatineau, Qc



------------------------------------------------------------------------------





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Growwine at littlefatwino.com
http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
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From littlefatwino at trytel.net  Mon Aug  4 08:17:39 2008
From: littlefatwino at trytel.net (Larry Paterson)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 08:17:39 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] New members
Message-ID: <002601c8f62e$06c19ea0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>

Hi;
 
We are Dufferincottagewines at live.com  .  We incorporated under the name Dufferin Cottage Wines Corp.  WE have a 2 year old vineyard of hardy grapes i.e. St. Croix, Frontenac, Foch, Louise Swenson, Prairie Star.  We have 10 acres in vines and will be adding a variety or two into a few more acres.  We are located on the north ridge of Hockley Valley near Orangeville Ontario.  We are working with wine consultant Jim Warren to help us set up our winery and make the best possible wine we can make.  
There seem to be a lot of small vineyards popping up all over the area. We'd love to chat about our experiences and share learning and friendship with anyone who shares our interest in these cold climate vineyards.
 
Carol Terentiak
Bill Reynolds


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From dolores_solutions at yahoo.ca  Mon Aug  4 09:58:25 2008
From: dolores_solutions at yahoo.ca (Dolores Smith)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 06:58:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Growwine] Tamarack/larch posts
In-Reply-To: <000901c8f569$ee8abca0$cba035e0$@ca>
Message-ID: <766163.72703.qm@web56213.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

My husband and I were in the Alpine region of northern Italy several years back and saw houses built from Tamarack that were over 400 years old.
?
Dolores Smith
Erin, ON

--- On Sun, 8/3/08, Glenda Baker <glenda at dccw.ca> wrote:

From: Glenda Baker <glenda at dccw.ca>
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
To: harold.tracanelli at bellnet.ca, growwine at littlefatwino.com
Received: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 9:07 AM








We use Tamarack also, purchased from a local mill, $3.00 per 10? pole. We used to get it milled, (3?x3?, 3?x4? and 4?x4?) since they had to cut it when clear cutting areas, otherwise they wouldn?t bother with it. However since the mill is no longer fully functioning we can only get poles, still it?s easier than cutting our own. It was the traditional wood for fence posts around here. Lasts for ages!
?
Glenda in NL
?


From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Harold Tracanelli
Sent: August 3, 2008 9:59 AM
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
?
Sunday August 03rd., 2008
?
For those folks out there who are interested in Tamarack, also known as Larch, many forestry companies up in northern Ontario cut for pulp.? Larger Tamarack logs make good stringers under log camps, I would not be surprised if not better than Cedar which is traditionally used.? 
?
Anywhere from the Timmins areas west through to Kapuskasing and Hearst along the Highway 11 corridor there are some very large areas of Tamarack where there are presently forestry operations underway.? Up north folks typically refer to the Tamarack as Pinett Rouge (sp?), which is also often burned for firewood, mixed with Poplar and Birch.
?
Regards, 
?
Harold Tracanelli
??
?




From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Sylvain H?lie
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 5:20 PM
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts
?

Anthony

?

Tamarack is better than cedar in strenght and durability....ask Alain Breault...

Ciao

?

Sylvain


----- Original Message ----- 

From: Canada Vintage 

To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 

Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 8:45 AM

Subject: [Growwine] Supplier for Cedar Vineyard posts

?
I am having a great deal of trouble finding a reliable supplier. Anyone have a good contact?? We need about 400-500 cedar posts 8ft long by 4 to 6 inches wide.
?
Thank-you

Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.CanadaVintage.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



?



_______________________________________________
Growwine mailing list
Growwine at littlefatwino.com
http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine_______________________________________________
Growwine mailing list
Growwine at littlefatwino.com
http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine



      __________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at
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From mauro at ridgepointwines.com  Mon Aug  4 10:22:28 2008
From: mauro at ridgepointwines.com (mauro@ridgepointwines.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:22:28 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] press for sale
In-Reply-To: <002601c8f62e$06c19ea0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
References: <002601c8f62e$06c19ea0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <20080804102228.3k2qe0jn404g0cs0@www.webmail.easyhosting.com>



   Forced to sell to handle increased production

   I am selling our Enoveneta pps9 bladder&#xa0;press.&#xa0; Great
press for making higher quality wine.&#xa0; I believe it handle upto
to a tonne and a half of crushed grapes and about 2 tonnes of
fermented grapes.&#xa0; Same electronics and programs as much bigger
presses.&#xa0; A 1000 % better then the reconditioned wilmes
presses.&#xa0; All built in, including air compressors.&#xa0; I am
buying the next size up. 

   $25,000 brand new.&#xa0; Selling for 19,000


Ahttp://www.enoveneta.it/downloads/presse_pneumatiche-36000001rev00.pdfnyone

   &#xa0;interest please contact me offlist atmailto:mauro at bellnet.ca

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From dbriden at magma.ca  Mon Aug  4 15:07:32 2008
From: dbriden at magma.ca (Doug Briden)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 15:07:32 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
Message-ID: <.1217876852@magma.ca>

 

	Larry, this vineyard plot is a much smaller scale area. There are 16
rows a little over 200 feet long and 8 feet apart high density planted
at 30 inch spacing. Yes I expect alot of hedging and cluster thinning
but the idea is to go for less fruit of better quality per vine and
yield prety much the same tonnage per acre but nowhere near enough to
fill that monster press Muro has for sale ! When installing the
plastic mulch my bedder/layer has the option to install drip tubing
under the mulch. This is the easiest and most cost efficient
irrigation and I will likely  not have to use it at all next year as
the roots will be deep enough unless we hit a real dry spell and if we
do it's there. 

	Doug. 

	Luskville, QC
 On Mon 04/08/08 08:20 , "Larry Paterson" littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca
sent:
  ?  Doug  a question   How far apart are your vines, and what
spacing between the rows?  If you are feeding them more than a tiny
amount you may end up spending the rest of your life with a hedge
trimmer...   Lardy   Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
 (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels
Critic)   http://www.littlefatwino.com/ [1]     ----- Original Message
-----  FROM: Doug Briden  TO: growwine at littlefatwino.com  SENT:
Monday, August 04, 2008 12:07 AM SUBJECT: Re: [Growwine] Normal
growth? 
	Anthony Carone wrote  You should be fine unless they are planted on
plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site.    I planted Frontenac
in plastic this spring ad I am in the process of installing trellis
due to the vigour of these plants most of which exceed 4 feet and many
over 6 feet. I can't cut the grass between the rows as the tops of the
vines have grown well beyond the planting stakes we put in to hold
them for the first year. The wood is already starting to harden off
nicely. Due to the amount of rain I have only irrigated twice this
year via drip tape beneath the plastic and the second irrigation was
primarily for feeding as the vines had enough water. I'll try to post
a few pictures this week if I get the time.   Cheers,   Doug.
Luskville,QC 
 On Sun 03/08/08 11:19 , Canada Vintage canadavintage at hotmail.com
sent:
   .hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } BODY.hmmessage {
FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma }  You should be fine unless they
are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. 
 Pull a vine out and see if there is a whitish fungus growing on the
roots. If so, 
 then, I would expect you may have root rot occurring on account of
all the water.
 Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
 Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 www.CanadaVintage.com
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-------------------------
 From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca
 To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
 Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:48:42 -0400
 Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
	Good morning, 
	I?m new in the viticulture field and I planted 200 new plants
(Frontenac, Sabrevois, Louise Swenson and ES 6-16-30) in June.
Unfortunately with all the rain we're having (30 days of rain in the
last 2 months), I don't think they are going very well. After 2 months
they are averaging 14 inches in height with some of them around 24
inches. Is this normal considering the weather? Does anyone have the
same problem this year? In perfect conditions how tall should they be
after 2 months?  
	Thanks 
	Nicholas Carri?re 

	Gatineau, Qc
-------------------------
-------------------------
	_______________________________________________
 Growwine mailing list
 Growwine at littlefatwino.com
 http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine


Links:
------
[1] http://www.littlefatwino.com/
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From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca  Mon Aug  4 15:22:36 2008
From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 15:22:36 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
References: <.1217876852@magma.ca>
Message-ID: <000301c8f667$cd445110$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>

Doug if what I fear happens you will always be able to remove every other vine to get five foot in-row spacing.  Sounds like your soil is a little vigorous to start with.  Can anyone from the midwest chip in here?

>From my experience and what I've heard the best way to ensure that Frontenac grapes have their acidity under control is to ensure that they are well exposed to the sun from veraison to harvest.  Vigorous growth can make this a very tough goal.

We have found that keeping the growth off even our five rows 120 feet long is a chunk of work when the buggers want to keep growing.  And this year, they just keep growing - around Peterborough any sunny day just means you get a chance to cut the tops off the mushrooms and clover where your lawn used to grow.

best of luck in any case

Lardy

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

http://www.littlefatwino.com/


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Doug Briden 
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?


Larry, this vineyard plot is a much smaller scale area. There are 16 rows a little over 200 feet long and 8 feet apart high density planted at 30 inch spacing. Yes I expect alot of hedging and cluster thinning but the idea is to go for less fruit of better quality per vine and yield prety much the same tonnage per acre but nowhere near enough to fill that monster press Muro has for sale ! When installing the plastic mulch my bedder/layer has the option to install drip tubing under the mulch. This is the easiest and most cost efficient irrigation and I will likely  not have to use it at all next year as the roots will be deep enough unless we hit a real dry spell and if we do it's there.

Doug.

Luskville, QC



On Mon 04/08/08 08:20 , "Larry Paterson" littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca sent:


  ? 
  Doug  a question

  How far apart are your vines, and what spacing between the rows?  If you are feeding them more than a tiny amount you may end up spending the rest of your life with a hedge trimmer...

  Lardy

  Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
  (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

  http://www.littlefatwino.com/


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Doug Briden 
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 12:07 AM
  Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?


  Anthony Carone wrote 

  You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. 

  I planted Frontenac in plastic this spring ad I am in the process of installing trellis due to the vigour of these plants most of which exceed 4 feet and many over 6 feet. I can't cut the grass between the rows as the tops of the vines have grown well beyond the planting stakes we put in to hold them for the first year. The wood is already starting to harden off nicely. Due to the amount of rain I have only irrigated twice this year via drip tape beneath the plastic and the second irrigation was primarily for feeding as the vines had enough water. I'll try to post a few pictures this week if I get the time.

  Cheers,

  Doug.
  Luskville,QC




  On Sun 03/08/08 11:19 , Canada Vintage canadavintage at hotmail.com sent:

    You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. 
     
    Pull a vine out and see if there is a whitish fungus growing on the roots. If so, 
    then, I would expect you may have root rot occurring on account of all the water.


    Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
    Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    www.CanadaVintage.com
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca
    To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
    Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:48:42 -0400
    Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?



    Good morning,



    I?m new in the viticulture field and I planted 200 new plants (Frontenac, Sabrevois, Louise Swenson and ES 6-16-30) in June. Unfortunately with all the rain we're having (30 days of rain in the last 2 months), I don't think they are going very well. After 2 months they are averaging 14 inches in height with some of them around 24 inches. Is this normal considering the weather? Does anyone have the same problem this year? In perfect conditions how tall should they be after 2 months? 



    Thanks



    Nicholas Carri?re

    Gatineau, Qc



----------------------------------------------------------------------------





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Growwine mailing list
  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
Growwine mailing list
Growwine at littlefatwino.com
http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
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From nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca  Mon Aug  4 16:00:45 2008
From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca (=?utf-8?Q?Nicholas_Carri=C3=A8re?=)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:00:45 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
References: <".1217876852"@magma.ca>
	<000301c8f667$cd445110$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
Message-ID: <008f01c8f66c$c85343a0$6501a8c0@hrdcdrhc.net>

I didn't use plastic mulch and the drainage is fairly good. I guess the clay soil doesn?t help!? Anyone else?s trying to grown vines in clay?

 

Doug, what type of soil do you have?  What about other varieties, are they also growing that fast?

 

Merci!

 

Nicholas Carri?re

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Larry Paterson 
  To: dbriden at magma.ca ; growwine at littlefatwino.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?


  Doug if what I fear happens you will always be able to remove every other vine to get five foot in-row spacing.  Sounds like your soil is a little vigorous to start with.  Can anyone from the midwest chip in here?

  From my experience and what I've heard the best way to ensure that Frontenac grapes have their acidity under control is to ensure that they are well exposed to the sun from veraison to harvest.  Vigorous growth can make this a very tough goal.

  We have found that keeping the growth off even our five rows 120 feet long is a chunk of work when the buggers want to keep growing.  And this year, they just keep growing - around Peterborough any sunny day just means you get a chance to cut the tops off the mushrooms and clover where your lawn used to grow.

  best of luck in any case

  Lardy

  Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
  (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

  http://www.littlefatwino.com/


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Doug Briden 
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?


  Larry, this vineyard plot is a much smaller scale area. There are 16 rows a little over 200 feet long and 8 feet apart high density planted at 30 inch spacing. Yes I expect alot of hedging and cluster thinning but the idea is to go for less fruit of better quality per vine and yield prety much the same tonnage per acre but nowhere near enough to fill that monster press Muro has for sale ! When installing the plastic mulch my bedder/layer has the option to install drip tubing under the mulch. This is the easiest and most cost efficient irrigation and I will likely  not have to use it at all next year as the roots will be deep enough unless we hit a real dry spell and if we do it's there.

  Doug.

  Luskville, QC



  On Mon 04/08/08 08:20 , "Larry Paterson" littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca sent:


    ? 
    Doug  a question

    How far apart are your vines, and what spacing between the rows?  If you are feeding them more than a tiny amount you may end up spending the rest of your life with a hedge trimmer...

    Lardy

    Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
    (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

    http://www.littlefatwino.com/


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Doug Briden 
    To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
    Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 12:07 AM
    Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?


    Anthony Carone wrote 

    You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. 

    I planted Frontenac in plastic this spring ad I am in the process of installing trellis due to the vigour of these plants most of which exceed 4 feet and many over 6 feet. I can't cut the grass between the rows as the tops of the vines have grown well beyond the planting stakes we put in to hold them for the first year. The wood is already starting to harden off nicely. Due to the amount of rain I have only irrigated twice this year via drip tape beneath the plastic and the second irrigation was primarily for feeding as the vines had enough water. I'll try to post a few pictures this week if I get the time.

    Cheers,

    Doug.
    Luskville,QC




    On Sun 03/08/08 11:19 , Canada Vintage canadavintage at hotmail.com sent:

      You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. 
       
      Pull a vine out and see if there is a whitish fungus growing on the roots. If so, 
      then, I would expect you may have root rot occurring on account of all the water.


      Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
      Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      www.CanadaVintage.com
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca
      To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
      Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:48:42 -0400
      Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?



      Good morning,



      I?m new in the viticulture field and I planted 200 new plants (Frontenac, Sabrevois, Louise Swenson and ES 6-16-30) in June. Unfortunately with all the rain we're having (30 days of rain in the last 2 months), I don't think they are going very well. After 2 months they are averaging 14 inches in height with some of them around 24 inches. Is this normal considering the weather? Does anyone have the same problem this year? In perfect conditions how tall should they be after 2 months? 



      Thanks



      Nicholas Carri?re

      Gatineau, Qc



--------------------------------------------------------------------------





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    Growwine at littlefatwino.com
    http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  Growwine at littlefatwino.com
  http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine



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From neil at coffinridge.ca  Mon Aug  4 22:35:04 2008
From: neil at coffinridge.ca (Neil)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 22:35:04 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] (no subject)
Message-ID: <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F00435CE2B@hosted4.myexchange.ad>

If you have true heavy clay you need to tile drain between every row.
Our Frontenac is 3 foot spacing and as it gets to 4 years or so it is
going to 4 cane Kniffen on two trunks. The only irrigation we do is on
the first year planting if they are starting to wilt. I think this
forces their roots down. This we do by running the sprayer through with
the bottom nozzles off.

 

Neil

Coffin Ridge

 

 

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From neil at coffinridge.ca  Mon Aug  4 22:25:28 2008
From: neil at coffinridge.ca (Neil)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 22:25:28 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
In-Reply-To: <008f01c8f66c$c85343a0$6501a8c0@hrdcdrhc.net>
References: <".1217876852"@magma.ca><000301c8f667$cd445110$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>
	<008f01c8f66c$c85343a0$6501a8c0@hrdcdrhc.net>
Message-ID: <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F00435CE2A@hosted4.myexchange.ad>

If you have true heavy clay you need to tile drain between every row. Our Frontenac is 3 foot spacing and as it gets to 4 years or so it is going to 4 cane Kniffen on two trunks. The only irrigation we do is on the first year planting if they are starting to wilt. I think this forces their roots down.

 

Neil

Coffin Ridge

 

________________________________

From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Nicholas Carri?re
Sent: August 4, 2008 16:01
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?

 

I didn't use plastic mulch and the drainage is fairly good. I guess the clay soil doesn?t help!? Anyone else?s trying to grown vines in clay?

 

Doug, what type of soil do you have?  What about other varieties, are they also growing that fast?

 

Merci!

 

Nicholas Carri?re

	----- Original Message ----- 

	From: Larry Paterson <mailto:littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca>  

	To: dbriden at magma.ca ; growwine at littlefatwino.com 

	Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:22 PM

	Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?

	 

	Doug if what I fear happens you will always be able to remove every other vine to get five foot in-row spacing.  Sounds like your soil is a little vigorous to start with.  Can anyone from the midwest chip in here?

	 

	From my experience and what I've heard the best way to ensure that Frontenac grapes have their acidity under control is to ensure that they are well exposed to the sun from veraison to harvest.  Vigorous growth can make this a very tough goal.

	 

	We have found that keeping the growth off even our five rows 120 feet long is a chunk of work when the buggers want to keep growing.  And this year, they just keep growing - around Peterborough any sunny day just means you get a chance to cut the tops off the mushrooms and clover where your lawn used to grow.

	 

	best of luck in any case

	 

	Lardy

	 

	Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
	(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

	 

	http://www.littlefatwino.com/

	 

	 

	----- Original Message ----- 

	From: Doug Briden <mailto:dbriden at magma.ca>  

	To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 

	Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:07 PM

	Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?

	 

	Larry, this vineyard plot is a much smaller scale area. There are 16 rows a little over 200 feet long and 8 feet apart high density planted at 30 inch spacing. Yes I expect alot of hedging and cluster thinning but the idea is to go for less fruit of better quality per vine and yield prety much the same tonnage per acre but nowhere near enough to fill that monster press Muro has for sale ! When installing the plastic mulch my bedder/layer has the option to install drip tubing under the mulch. This is the easiest and most cost efficient irrigation and I will likely  not have to use it at all next year as the roots will be deep enough unless we hit a real dry spell and if we do it's there.

	Doug.

	Luskville, QC
	
	
	
	On Mon 04/08/08 08:20 , "Larry Paterson" littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca sent:

		? 

		Doug  a question

		 

		How far apart are your vines, and what spacing between the rows?  If you are feeding them more than a tiny amount you may end up spending the rest of your life with a hedge trimmer...

		 

		Lardy

		 

		Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
		(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

		 

		http://www.littlefatwino.com/

		 

		 

		----- Original Message ----- 

		From: Doug Briden <mailto:dbriden at magma.ca>  

		To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 

		Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 12:07 AM

		Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?

		 

		Anthony Carone wrote 

		You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. 

		 

		I planted Frontenac in plastic this spring ad I am in the process of installing trellis due to the vigour of these plants most of which exceed 4 feet and many over 6 feet. I can't cut the grass between the rows as the tops of the vines have grown well beyond the planting stakes we put in to hold them for the first year. The wood is already starting to harden off nicely. Due to the amount of rain I have only irrigated twice this year via drip tape beneath the plastic and the second irrigation was primarily for feeding as the vines had enough water. I'll try to post a few pictures this week if I get the time.

		 

		Cheers,

		 

		Doug.

		Luskville,QC

		
		
		
		
		On Sun 03/08/08 11:19 , Canada Vintage canadavintage at hotmail.com sent:

			You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. 
			 
			Pull a vine out and see if there is a whitish fungus growing on the roots. If so, 
			then, I would expect you may have root rot occurring on account of all the water.
			
			
			Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
			Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises
			
			~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
			www.CanadaVintage.com
			~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
			
			

			
________________________________


			
			From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca
			To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
			Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:48:42 -0400
			Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
			
			
			
			

			Good morning,

			 

			I?m new in the viticulture field and I planted 200 new plants (Frontenac, Sabrevois, Louise Swenson and ES 6-16-30) in June. Unfortunately with all the rain we're having (30 days of rain in the last 2 months), I don't think they are going very well. After 2 months they are averaging 14 inches in height with some of them around 24 inches. Is this normal considering the weather? Does anyone have the same problem this year? In perfect conditions how tall should they be after 2 months? 

			 

			Thanks

			 

			Nicholas Carri?re

			Gatineau, Qc

			 

			
________________________________


			

		 

		
________________________________


		_______________________________________________
		Growwine mailing list
		Growwine at littlefatwino.com
		http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine

	 

	
________________________________


	_______________________________________________
	Growwine mailing list
	Growwine at littlefatwino.com
	http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine

	
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From midmp at abacom.com  Tue Aug  5 10:19:50 2008
From: midmp at abacom.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_Par=E9?=)
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 06:19:50 -0800
Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
In-Reply-To: <008f01c8f66c$c85343a0$6501a8c0@hrdcdrhc.net>
References: <".1217876852"@magma.ca>,
	<008f01c8f66c$c85343a0$6501a8c0@hrdcdrhc.net>
Message-ID: <4897F106.20201.14991F30@midmp.abacom.com>

Hi,

have a few vines in  clay site/not tiled/plastic mulch.   growth is so-so.

in compton, quebec, brianna (@ 4 ft, loam, plastic mulch) is threatening to 
take over the vineyard, spp. as it appears to be semi-trailing. hedging will 
bring it back under control.

Radisson/ES517 is also vigourous but a bit more behaved.  DM8521 is the 
quiet kid.

martin

On 4 Aug 2008 at 16:00, Nicholas Carri?re wrote:

> 
>  
> I didn't use plastic mulch and the drainage is fairly good. I guess the clay soil doesn?t help!? 
> Anyone else?s trying to grown vines in clay?
> 
> Doug, what type of soil do you have? What about other varieties, are they also growing that fast?
> 
> Merci!
> 
> Nicholas Carri?re
> 
>     ----- Original Message ----- 
>     From: Larry Paterson 
>     To: dbriden at magma.ca ; growwine at littlefatwino.com 
>     Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:22 PM
>     Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?
> 
>     Doug if what I fear happens you will always be able to remove every other vine to get five 
>     foot in-row spacing. Sounds like your soil is a little vigorous to start with. Can anyone from 
>     the midwest chip in here?
>     
>     From my experience and what I've heard the best way to ensure that Frontenac grapes 
>     have their acidity under control is to ensure that they are well exposed to the sunfrom 
>     veraison to harvest. Vigorous growth can make this a very tough goal.
>     
>     We have found that keeping the growth off even our five rows 120 feet long is a chunk of 
>     work when the buggers want to keep growing. And this year, they just keep growing - 
>     around Peterborough any sunny day just means you get a chance to cut the tops off the 
>     mushrooms and clover where your lawn used to grow.
>     
>     best of luck in any case
>     
>     Lardy
>     
>     Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
>     (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)
>     
>     http://www.littlefatwino.com/
>     
>     
>     ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Briden 
>     To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
>     Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:07 PM
>     Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?
> 
> 
> Larry, this vineyard plot is a much smaller scale area. There are 16 rows a little over 200 feet long 
> and 8 feet apart high density planted at 30 inch spacing. Yes I expect alot of hedging and cluster 
> thinning but the idea is to go for less fruit of better quality per vine and yield prety much the same 
> tonnage per acre but nowhere near enough to fill that monster press Muro has for sale ! When 
> installing the plastic mulch my bedder/layer has the option to install drip tubing under the mulch. 
> This is the easiest and most cost efficient irrigation and I will likely not have to use it at all next 
> year as the roots will be deep enough unless we hit a real dry spell and if we do it's there.
> Doug.
> Luskville, QC
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon 04/08/08 08:20 , "Larry Paterson" littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca sent:
>      Doug a question
>     
>     How far apart are your vines, and what spacing between the rows? If you are feeding them 
>     more than a tiny amount you may end up spending the rest of your life with a hedge 
>     trimmer...
>     
>     Lardy
>     
>     Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
>     (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)
>     
>     http://www.littlefatwino.com/
>     
>     
>     ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Briden 
>     To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
>     Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 12:07 AM
>     Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?
> 
> 
> AnthonyCaronewrote
> Youshouldbefineunlesstheyareplantedonplasticmulchoryouhaveanill-drainingsite. 
> 
> IplantedFrontenacinplasticthisspringadIamintheprocessofinstallingtrellisduetothevigour
> oftheseplantsmostofwhichexceed4feetandmanyover6feet. 
> Ican'tcutthegrassbetweentherowsasthetopsofthevineshavegrownwellbeyondtheplantin
> gstakesweputintoholdthemforthefirstyear. Thewoodisalreadystartingtohardenoffnicely. 
> Due to the amount of rain I have only irrigated twice this year via drip tape beneath the plastic and 
> the second irrigation was primarily for feeding as the vines had enough water. I'll try to post a few 
> pictures this week if I get the time.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Doug.
> Luskville,QC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OnSun03/08/0811:19 , CanadaVintagecanadavintage at hotmail.comsent:
>     Youshouldbefineunlesstheyareplantedonplasticmulchoryouhavean
>     ill-drainingsite. 
>     
>     Pullavineoutandseeifthereisawhitishfungusgrowingontheroots. 
>     Ifso, 
>     then, 
>     Iwouldexpectyoumayhaverootrotoccurringonaccountofallthewater.
>     
>     
>     AnthonyCarone (Zone4b-5a)
>     CanadaVintage - CaroneVineyards, adivisionofCaroneEnterprises
>     
>     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>     www.CanadaVintage.com
>     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>     
> 
> 
>     
>     From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca
>     To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
>     Date: Sun, 3Aug200810:48:42 -0400
>     Subject: [Growwine] Normalgrowth?
>     
> 
> Goodmorning,
>     
>     I?mnewintheviticulturefieldandIplanted200newplants (Frontenac, Sabrevois, 
>     LouiseSwensonandES6-16-30)inJune. Unfortunatelywithalltherainwe'rehaving 
>     (30daysofraininthelast2months), Idon'tthinktheyaregoingverywell. 
>     After2monthstheyareaveraging14inchesinheightwithsomeofthemaround24inches. 
>     Isthisnormalconsideringtheweather? Doesanyonehavethesameproblemthisyear? 
>     Inperfectconditionshowtallshouldtheybeafter2months?
>     
>     Thanks
>     
>     NicholasCarri?re
>     Gatineau, Qc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Growwine mailing list
> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Growwine mailing list
> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Growwine mailing list
> Growwine at littlefatwino.com
> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine



From dbriden at magma.ca  Tue Aug  5 09:38:14 2008
From: dbriden at magma.ca (Doug Briden)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:38:14 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
Message-ID: <.1217943494@magma.ca>

 

	We have a range of soil types as do most farms. Our upper fields are
on top of a ridge and are comprised mostly of a sandy loam with very
good drainage. This is where I planted in the plastic mulch this year.
The main portions of the vineyard run down the south faced slope and
the soil varies from sandy loam to clay loam to clay. The vines
(Frontenac) are more vigorous in the sandy loam and clay loam areas
than the pure clay by as much as 100% in spots it will be interesting
to see the difference in acid levels between the normal vigour and
high vigor patches as Larry pointed out. The Swenson varieties are
less vigorous than the frontenac but are also doing well (st. Croix,
5-17, 6-16-30, 8-2-43) and also differ in terms of vigour in the more
loamy soil but not as wide a difference as the Frontenac. I have two
poor performers Louise Swenson and Sabrevois now gone. The sabrevois
was in a poor location (wet) and were planted too late in the year as
for the LS others have said they are much slower so I may give them
another year to see.  

	Doug.
 On Mon 04/08/08 16:00 , Nicholas Carri?re
nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca sent:
  ?   

	I didn't use plastic mulch and the drainage is fairly good. I guess
the clay soil doesn?t help!? Anyone else?s trying to grown vines
in clay? 
	Doug, what type of soil do you have?  What about other varieties,
are they also growing that fast? 
	Merci! 
	Nicholas Carri?re  ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE -----  FROM: Larry
Paterson  TO: dbriden at magma.ca ; growwine at littlefatwino.com  SENT:
Monday, August 04, 2008 3:22 PM SUBJECT: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?

  Doug if what I fear happens you will always be able to remove every
other vine to get five foot in-row spacing.  Sounds like your soil is
a little vigorous to start with.  Can anyone from the midwest chip in
here?   From my experience and what I've heard the best way to ensure
that Frontenac grapes have their acidity under control is to ensure
that they are well exposed to the sun from veraison to harvest. 
Vigorous growth can make this a very tough goal.   We have found that
keeping the growth off even our five rows 120 feet long is a chunk of
work when the buggers want to keep growing.  And this year, they just
keep growing - around Peterborough any sunny day just means you get a
chance to cut the tops off the mushrooms and clover where your lawn
used to grow.   best of luck in any case   Lardy   Larry Paterson,
lfw, rd, adcc
 (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels
Critic)   http://www.littlefatwino.com/ [1]     ----- Original Message
-----  FROM: Doug Briden  TO: growwine at littlefatwino.com  SENT:
Monday, August 04, 2008 3:07 PM SUBJECT: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?

	Larry, this vineyard plot is a much smaller scale area. There are 16
rows a little over 200 feet long and 8 feet apart high density planted
at 30 inch spacing. Yes I expect alot of hedging and cluster thinning
but the idea is to go for less fruit of better quality per vine and
yield prety much the same tonnage per acre but nowhere near enough to
fill that monster press Muro has for sale ! When installing the
plastic mulch my bedder/layer has the option to install drip tubing
under the mulch. This is the easiest and most cost efficient
irrigation and I will likely  not have to use it at all next year as
the roots will be deep enough unless we hit a real dry spell and if we
do it's there. 

	Doug. 

	Luskville, QC
 On Mon 04/08/08 08:20 , "Larry Paterson" littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca
sent:
  ?  Doug  a question   How far apart are your vines, and what
spacing between the rows?  If you are feeding them more than a tiny
amount you may end up spending the rest of your life with a hedge
trimmer...   Lardy   Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
 (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels
Critic)   http://www.littlefatwino.com/ [2]     ----- Original Message
-----  FROM: Doug Briden  TO: growwine at littlefatwino.com  SENT:
Monday, August 04, 2008 12:07 AM SUBJECT: Re: [Growwine] Normal
growth? 
	Anthony Carone wrote  You should be fine unless they are planted on
plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site.    I planted Frontenac
in plastic this spring ad I am in the process of installing trellis
due to the vigour of these plants most of which exceed 4 feet and many
over 6 feet. I can't cut the grass between the rows as the tops of the
vines have grown well beyond the planting stakes we put in to hold
them for the first year. The wood is already starting to harden off
nicely. Due to the amount of rain I have only irrigated twice this
year via drip tape beneath the plastic and the second irrigation was
primarily for feeding as the vines had enough water. I'll try to post
a few pictures this week if I get the time.   Cheers,   Doug.
Luskville,QC 
 On Sun 03/08/08 11:19 , Canada Vintage canadavintage at hotmail.com
sent:
   .hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } BODY.hmmessage {
FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma }  You should be fine unless they
are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. 
 Pull a vine out and see if there is a whitish fungus growing on the
roots. If so, 
 then, I would expect you may have root rot occurring on account of
all the water.
 Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
 Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 www.CanadaVintage.com
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-------------------------
 From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca
 To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
 Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:48:42 -0400
 Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
	Good morning, 
	I?m new in the viticulture field and I planted 200 new plants
(Frontenac, Sabrevois, Louise Swenson and ES 6-16-30) in June.
Unfortunately with all the rain we're having (30 days of rain in the
last 2 months), I don't think they are going very well. After 2 months
they are averaging 14 inches in height with some of them around 24
inches. Is this normal considering the weather? Does anyone have the
same problem this year? In perfect conditions how tall should they be
after 2 months?  
	Thanks 
	Nicholas Carri?re 

	Gatineau, Qc
-------------------------
-------------------------
	_______________________________________________
 Growwine mailing list
 Growwine at littlefatwino.com
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From canadavintage at hotmail.com  Tue Aug  5 17:39:11 2008
From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (Canada Vintage)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 17:39:11 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
In-Reply-To: <008f01c8f66c$c85343a0$6501a8c0@hrdcdrhc.net>
References: < <008f01c8f66c$c85343a0$6501a8c0@hrdcdrhc.net>
Message-ID: <BAY113-W37E417EF70B2BF9EE2F573A17B0@phx.gbl>


Was your soil deep trenched prior to planting?  Was it chiselled, plowed, or disced?
You could be dealing with compaction on clay soil that is limiting your growth.

BTW, drainage is never good on clay...

Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.CanadaVintage.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:00:45 -0400
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?









I didn't use plastic mulch and the 
drainage is fairly good. I guess the clay soil doesn?t help!? Anyone else?s 
trying to grown vines in clay?
 
Doug, what type of soil do you have? 
 What about other varieties, are 
they also growing that fast?
 
Merci!
 
Nicholas 
Carri?re

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  Larry 
  Paterson 
  To: dbriden at magma.ca ; growwine at littlefatwino.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:22 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal 
  growth?
  

  Doug if what I fear happens you will always be 
  able to remove every other vine to get five foot in-row spacing.  Sounds 
  like your soil is a little vigorous to start with.  Can anyone from the 
  midwest chip in here?
   
  From my experience and what I've heard the best 
  way to ensure that Frontenac grapes have their acidity under control is to 
  ensure that they are well exposed to the sun from veraison to 
  harvest.  Vigorous growth can make this a very tough goal.
   
  We have found that keeping the growth off even 
  our five rows 120 feet long is a chunk of work when the buggers want to keep 
  growing.  And this year, they just keep growing - around Peterborough any 
  sunny day just means you get a chance to cut the tops off the mushrooms and 
  clover where your lawn used to grow.
   
  best of luck in any case
   
  Lardy
   
  Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol 
  Distribution Channels Critic)
   
  http://www.littlefatwino.com/
   
   
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Doug Briden 
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?
  

  Larry, this vineyard plot is a much smaller scale area. There are 16 rows a 
  little over 200 feet long and 8 feet apart high density planted at 30 inch 
  spacing. Yes I expect alot of hedging and cluster thinning but the idea is to 
  go for less fruit of better quality per vine and yield prety much the same 
  tonnage per acre but nowhere near enough to fill that monster press Muro has 
  for sale ! When installing the plastic mulch my bedder/layer has the option to 
  install drip tubing under the mulch. This is the easiest and most cost 
  efficient irrigation and I will likely  not have to use it at all next 
  year as the roots will be deep enough unless we hit a real dry spell and if we 
  do it's there.
  Doug.
  Luskville, QC



On Mon 04/08/08 08:20 , "Larry Paterson" 
  littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca sent:

  ? 
    
    Doug  a 
    question
     
    How far apart are 
    your vines, and what spacing between the rows?  If you are feeding them 
    more than a tiny amount you may end up spending the rest of your life with a 
    hedge trimmer...
     
    Lardy
     
    Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, 
    Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)
     
    http://www.littlefatwino.com/
     
     
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Doug Briden 
    To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
    
    Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 12:07 AM
    Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?
    

    Anthony Carone wrote 
    You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. 
    
     
    I planted Frontenac in plastic this spring ad I am in the process of installing trellis due to the vigour of these plants most of which exceed 4 feet and many over 6 feet. 
    I can't cut the grass between the rows as the tops of the vines have grown well beyond the planting stakes we put in to hold them for the first year. 
    The wood is already starting to harden off nicely. 
    Due to the amount of rain I have only irrigated twice this year via drip 
    tape beneath the plastic and the second irrigation was primarily for feeding 
    as the vines had enough water. I'll try to post a few pictures this week if 
    I get the time.
     
    Cheers,
     
    Doug.
    Luskville,QC
    



On Sun 03/08/08 11:19 , 
    Canada Vintage canadavintage at hotmail.com sent:

    
      
      You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. 
      
 
Pull a vine out and see if there is a whitish fungus growing on the roots. 
      If so, 
then, 
      I would expect you may have root rot occurring on account of all the water.


Anthony Carone 
      (Zone 4b-5a)
Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, 
      a division of Carone Enterprises

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.CanadaVintage.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



      
      
From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca
To: 
      growwine at littlefatwino.com
Date: Sun, 
      3 Aug 2008 10:48:42 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] 
      Normal growth?



      

      
      Good morning,
       
      I?m new in the viticulture field and I planted 200 new plants 
      (Frontenac, Sabrevois, 
      Louise Swenson and ES 6-16-30) in June. 
      Unfortunately with all the rain we're having 
      (30 days of rain in the last 2 months), 
      I don't think they are going very well. 
      After 2 months they are averaging 14 inches in height with some of them around 24 inches. 
      Is this normal considering the weather? 
      Does anyone have the same problem this year? 
      In perfect conditions how tall should they be after 2 months? 
       
      Thanks
       
      Nicholas Carri?re
      Gatineau, Qc

      
      

    
    

    _______________________________________________
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    list
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  list
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From nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca  Tue Aug  5 18:28:00 2008
From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca (=?utf-8?Q?Nicholas_Carri=C3=A8re?=)
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:28:00 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
References: <" <008f01c8f66c$c85343a0$6501a8c0"@hrdcdrhc.net>
	<BAY113-W37E417EF70B2BF9EE2F573A17B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <003001c8f74a$84d596d0$6501a8c0@hrdcdrhc.net>

Actually we have clay loam with 8% of organic matter. We worked the soils last fall to correct the compaction. As for the drainage, I have to say that it?s not that bad, there?s no water accumulation and it dries fairly quickly after rain with some small exceptions (5 plants of Frontenac). With all the rain we had last week, the soil stays moist but not wet. 



Let just hope that August will be better that the last 2 months.



Thanks



Nicholas Carri?re





----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Canada Vintage 
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 5:39 PM
  Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?


  Was your soil deep trenched prior to planting?  Was it chiselled, plowed, or disced?
  You could be dealing with compaction on clay soil that is limiting your growth.

  BTW, drainage is never good on clay...

  Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
  Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  www.CanadaVintage.com
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca
  To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
  Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:00:45 -0400
  Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?


  I didn't use plastic mulch and the drainage is fairly good. I guess the clay soil doesn?t help!? Anyone else?s trying to grown vines in clay?



  Doug, what type of soil do you have?  What about other varieties, are they also growing that fast?



  Merci!



  Nicholas Carri?re

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Larry Paterson 
    To: dbriden at magma.ca ; growwine at littlefatwino.com 
    Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:22 PM
    Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?


    Doug if what I fear happens you will always be able to remove every other vine to get five foot in-row spacing.  Sounds like your soil is a little vigorous to start with.  Can anyone from the midwest chip in here?

    From my experience and what I've heard the best way to ensure that Frontenac grapes have their acidity under control is to ensure that they are well exposed to the sun from veraison to harvest.  Vigorous growth can make this a very tough goal.

    We have found that keeping the growth off even our five rows 120 feet long is a chunk of work when the buggers want to keep growing.  And this year, they just keep growing - around Peterborough any sunny day just means you get a chance to cut the tops off the mushrooms and clover where your lawn used to grow.

    best of luck in any case

    Lardy

    Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
    (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

    http://www.littlefatwino.com/


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Doug Briden 
    To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
    Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:07 PM
    Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?


    Larry, this vineyard plot is a much smaller scale area. There are 16 rows a little over 200 feet long and 8 feet apart high density planted at 30 inch spacing. Yes I expect alot of hedging and cluster thinning but the idea is to go for less fruit of better quality per vine and yield prety much the same tonnage per acre but nowhere near enough to fill that monster press Muro has for sale ! When installing the plastic mulch my bedder/layer has the option to install drip tubing under the mulch. This is the easiest and most cost efficient irrigation and I will likely  not have to use it at all next year as the roots will be deep enough unless we hit a real dry spell and if we do it's there.
    Doug.
    Luskville, QC



    On Mon 04/08/08 08:20 , "Larry Paterson" littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca sent:


      ? 
      Doug  a question

      How far apart are your vines, and what spacing between the rows?  If you are feeding them more than a tiny amount you may end up spending the rest of your life with a hedge trimmer...

      Lardy

      Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
      (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

      http://www.littlefatwino.com/


      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Doug Briden 
      To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
      Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 12:07 AM
      Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?


      Anthony Carone wrote 

      You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. 

      I planted Frontenac in plastic this spring ad I am in the process of installing trellis due to the vigour of these plants most of which exceed 4 feet and many over 6 feet. I can't cut the grass between the rows as the tops of the vines have grown well beyond the planting stakes we put in to hold them for the first year. The wood is already starting to harden off nicely. Due to the amount of rain I have only irrigated twice this year via drip tape beneath the plastic and the second irrigation was primarily for feeding as the vines had enough water. I'll try to post a few pictures this week if I get the time.

      Cheers,

      Doug.
      Luskville,QC




      On Sun 03/08/08 11:19 , Canada Vintage canadavintage at hotmail.com sent:

        You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. 
         
        Pull a vine out and see if there is a whitish fungus growing on the roots. If so, 
        then, I would expect you may have root rot occurring on account of all the water.


        Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
        Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        www.CanadaVintage.com
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



------------------------------------------------------------------------

        From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca
        To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
        Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:48:42 -0400
        Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?



        Good morning,



        I?m new in the viticulture field and I planted 200 new plants (Frontenac, Sabrevois, Louise Swenson and ES 6-16-30) in June. Unfortunately with all the rain we're having (30 days of rain in the last 2 months), I don't think they are going very well. After 2 months they are averaging 14 inches in height with some of them around 24 inches. Is this normal considering the weather? Does anyone have the same problem this year? In perfect conditions how tall should they be after 2 months? 



        Thanks



        Nicholas Carri?re

        Gatineau, Qc



------------------------------------------------------------------------




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      Growwine at littlefatwino.com
      http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine




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    http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine


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From farmerman007 at hotmail.com  Tue Aug  5 17:59:56 2008
From: farmerman007 at hotmail.com (farmer man)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 17:59:56 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.19.1217943536.538.growwine@littlefatwino.com>
References: <mailman.19.1217943536.538.growwine@littlefatwino.com>
Message-ID: <BLU122-W323A5E70D8124356159AFF957B0@phx.gbl>


Hello everyone,
 
My name is Jan-Daniel Etter and I live in Navan, Ontario which is about 15 minutes east of Ottawa.  My brother and I have planted 240 plants of Frontenac this spring in a good clay loam soil.  We planted them on a slight slope with tile drainage.  We planted them around the 15 of june and they are growing well without been too vigorous (they are between 2-4 feet high on average).  We didnt have to water them at all up to now.  The only problem we have encountered up to now is a small black insect that can fly who has been eating the leaves.  We have sprayed with an insecticide about 3 weeks ago and we might treat once more before the season is over.  The damage they did wasnt catastrophic but we decided to treat anyways as a precaution.  We first thought that this insect was a soybean aphid but after making some research we realized it wasnt it.  Anyone has an idea of what insect this might be????  Ive been a member of the list for about 3 weeks now and i found the concept really interesting and an excellent source of information.
Salutations,
Jan-Daniel Etter> From: growwine-request at littlefatwino.com> Subject: Growwine Digest, Vol 11, Issue 3> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:38:56 -0400> > Send Growwine mailing list submissions to> growwine at littlefatwino.com> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> growwine-request at littlefatwino.com> > You can reach the person managing the list at> growwine-owner at littlefatwino.com> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Growwine digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: Normal growth? (Nicholas Carri?re)> 2. (no subject) (Neil)> 3. Re: Normal growth? (Neil)> 4. Re: Normal growth? ( Martin Par? )> 5. Re: Normal growth? (Doug Briden)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:00:45 -0400> From: Nicholas Carri?re <nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca>> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com> Message-ID: <008f01c8f66c$c85343a0$6501a8c0 at hrdcdrhc.net>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> > I didn't use plastic mulch and the drainage is fairly good. I guess the clay soil doesn?t help!? Anyone else?s trying to grown vines in clay?> > > > Doug, what type of soil do you have? What about other varieties, are they also growing that fast?> > > > Merci!> > > > Nicholas Carri?re> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Larry Paterson > To: dbriden at magma.ca ; growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:22 PM> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?> > > Doug if what I fear happens you will always be able to remove every other vine to get five foot in-row spacing. Sounds like your soil is a little vigorous to start with. Can anyone from the midwest chip in here?> > From my experience and what I've heard the best way to ensure that Frontenac grapes have their acidity under control is to ensure that they are well exposed to the sun from veraison to harvest. Vigorous growth can make this a very tough goal.> > We have found that keeping the growth off even our five rows 120 feet long is a chunk of work when the buggers want to keep growing. And this year, they just keep growing - around Peterborough any sunny day just means you get a chance to cut the tops off the mushrooms and clover where your lawn used to grow.> > best of luck in any case> > Lardy> > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc> (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)> > http://www.littlefatwino.com/> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Doug Briden > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:07 PM> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?> > > Larry, this vineyard plot is a much smaller scale area. There are 16 rows a little over 200 feet long and 8 feet apart high density planted at 30 inch spacing. Yes I expect alot of hedging and cluster thinning but the idea is to go for less fruit of better quality per vine and yield prety much the same tonnage per acre but nowhere near enough to fill that monster press Muro has for sale ! When installing the plastic mulch my bedder/layer has the option to install drip tubing under the mulch. This is the easiest and most cost efficient irrigation and I will likely not have to use it at all next year as the roots will be deep enough unless we hit a real dry spell and if we do it's there.> > Doug.> > Luskville, QC> > > > On Mon 04/08/08 08:20 , "Larry Paterson" littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca sent:> > > ? > Doug a question> > How far apart are your vines, and what spacing between the rows? If you are feeding them more than a tiny amount you may end up spending the rest of your life with a hedge trimmer...> > Lardy> > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc> (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)> > http://www.littlefatwino.com/> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Doug Briden > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 12:07 AM> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?> > > Anthony Carone wrote > > You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. > > I planted Frontenac in plastic this spring ad I am in the process of installing trellis due to the vigour of these plants most of which exceed 4 feet and many over 6 feet. I can't cut the grass between the rows as the tops of the vines have grown well beyond the planting stakes we put in to hold them for the first year. The wood is already starting to harden off nicely. Due to the amount of rain I have only irrigated twice this year via drip tape beneath the plastic and the second irrigation was primarily for feeding as the vines had enough water. I'll try to post a few pictures this week if I get the time.> > Cheers,> > Doug.> Luskville,QC> > > > > On Sun 03/08/08 11:19 , Canada Vintage canadavintage at hotmail.com sent:> > You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. > > Pull a vine out and see if there is a whitish fungus growing on the roots. If so, > then, I would expect you may have root rot occurring on account of all the water.> > > Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)> Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> www.CanadaVintage.com> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------> > From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:48:42 -0400> Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?> > > > Good morning,> > > > I?m new in the viticulture field and I planted 200 new plants (Frontenac, Sabrevois, Louise Swenson and ES 6-16-30) in June. Unfortunately with all the rain we're having (30 days of rain in the last 2 months), I don't think they are going very well. After 2 months they are averaging 14 inches in height with some of them around 24 inches. Is this normal considering the weather? Does anyone have the same problem this year? In perfect conditions how tall should they be after 2 months? > > > > Thanks> > > > Nicholas Carri?re> > Gatineau, Qc> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > _______________________________________________> Growwine mailing list> Growwine at littlefatwino.com> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > _______________________________________________> Growwine mailing list> Growwine at littlefatwino.com> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > _______________________________________________> Growwine mailing list> Growwine at littlefatwino.com> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine> -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080804/3a4e3b0c/attachment-0001.html> > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 22:35:04 -0400> From: "Neil" <neil at coffinridge.ca>> Subject: [Growwine] (no subject)> To: <growwine at littlefatwino.com>> Message-ID:> <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F00435CE2B at hosted4.myexchange.ad>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"> > If you have true heavy clay you need to tile drain between every row.> Our Frontenac is 3 foot spacing and as it gets to 4 years or so it is> going to 4 cane Kniffen on two trunks. The only irrigation we do is on> the first year planting if they are starting to wilt. I think this> forces their roots down. This we do by running the sprayer through with> the bottom nozzles off.> > > > Neil> > Coffin Ridge> > > > > > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080804/9ae91617/attachment-0001.html> > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 22:25:28 -0400> From: "Neil" <neil at coffinridge.ca>> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?> To: <growwine at littlefatwino.com>> Message-ID:> <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F00435CE2A at hosted4.myexchange.ad>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> > If you have true heavy clay you need to tile drain between every row. Our Frontenac is 3 foot spacing and as it gets to 4 years or so it is going to 4 cane Kniffen on two trunks. The only irrigation we do is on the first year planting if they are starting to wilt. I think this forces their roots down.> > > > Neil> > Coffin Ridge> > > > ________________________________> > From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Nicholas Carri?re> Sent: August 4, 2008 16:01> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?> > > > I didn't use plastic mulch and the drainage is fairly good. I guess the clay soil doesn?t help!? Anyone else?s trying to grown vines in clay?> > > > Doug, what type of soil do you have? What about other varieties, are they also growing that fast?> > > > Merci!> > > > Nicholas Carri?re> > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Larry Paterson <mailto:littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca> > > To: dbriden at magma.ca ; growwine at littlefatwino.com > > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:22 PM> > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?> > > > Doug if what I fear happens you will always be able to remove every other vine to get five foot in-row spacing. Sounds like your soil is a little vigorous to start with. Can anyone from the midwest chip in here?> > > > From my experience and what I've heard the best way to ensure that Frontenac grapes have their acidity under control is to ensure that they are well exposed to the sun from veraison to harvest. Vigorous growth can make this a very tough goal.> > > > We have found that keeping the growth off even our five rows 120 feet long is a chunk of work when the buggers want to keep growing. And this year, they just keep growing - around Peterborough any sunny day just means you get a chance to cut the tops off the mushrooms and clover where your lawn used to grow.> > > > best of luck in any case> > > > Lardy> > > > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc> (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)> > > > http://www.littlefatwino.com/> > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Doug Briden <mailto:dbriden at magma.ca> > > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:07 PM> > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?> > > > Larry, this vineyard plot is a much smaller scale area. There are 16 rows a little over 200 feet long and 8 feet apart high density planted at 30 inch spacing. Yes I expect alot of hedging and cluster thinning but the idea is to go for less fruit of better quality per vine and yield prety much the same tonnage per acre but nowhere near enough to fill that monster press Muro has for sale ! When installing the plastic mulch my bedder/layer has the option to install drip tubing under the mulch. This is the easiest and most cost efficient irrigation and I will likely not have to use it at all next year as the roots will be deep enough unless we hit a real dry spell and if we do it's there.> > Doug.> > Luskville, QC> > > > On Mon 04/08/08 08:20 , "Larry Paterson" littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca sent:> > ? > > Doug a question> > > > How far apart are your vines, and what spacing between the rows? If you are feeding them more than a tiny amount you may end up spending the rest of your life with a hedge trimmer...> > > > Lardy> > > > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc> (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)> > > > http://www.littlefatwino.com/> > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Doug Briden <mailto:dbriden at magma.ca> > > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 12:07 AM> > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?> > > > Anthony Carone wrote > > You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. > > > > I planted Frontenac in plastic this spring ad I am in the process of installing trellis due to the vigour of these plants most of which exceed 4 feet and many over 6 feet. I can't cut the grass between the rows as the tops of the vines have grown well beyond the planting stakes we put in to hold them for the first year. The wood is already starting to harden off nicely. Due to the amount of rain I have only irrigated twice this year via drip tape beneath the plastic and the second irrigation was primarily for feeding as the vines had enough water. I'll try to post a few pictures this week if I get the time.> > > > Cheers,> > > > Doug.> > Luskville,QC> > > > > > On Sun 03/08/08 11:19 , Canada Vintage canadavintage at hotmail.com sent:> > You should be fine unless they are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. > > Pull a vine out and see if there is a whitish fungus growing on the roots. If so, > then, I would expect you may have root rot occurring on account of all the water.> > > Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)> Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> www.CanadaVintage.com> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> > > > > ________________________________> > > > From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:48:42 -0400> Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?> > > > > > Good morning,> > > > I?m new in the viticulture field and I planted 200 new plants (Frontenac, Sabrevois, Louise Swenson and ES 6-16-30) in June. Unfortunately with all the rain we're having (30 days of rain in the last 2 months), I don't think they are going very well. After 2 months they are averaging 14 inches in height with some of them around 24 inches. Is this normal considering the weather? Does anyone have the same problem this year? In perfect conditions how tall should they be after 2 months? > > > > Thanks> > > > Nicholas Carri?re> > Gatineau, Qc> > > > > ________________________________> > > > > > > > ________________________________> > > _______________________________________________> Growwine mailing list> Growwine at littlefatwino.com> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine> > > > > ________________________________> > > _______________________________________________> Growwine mailing list> Growwine at littlefatwino.com> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine> > > ________________________________> > > _______________________________________________> Growwine mailing list> Growwine at littlefatwino.com> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine> > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080804/6ff84b1c/attachment-0001.html> > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 06:19:50 -0800> From: " Martin Par? " <midmp at abacom.com>> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com> Message-ID: <4897F106.20201.14991F30 at midmp.abacom.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1> > Hi,> > have a few vines in clay site/not tiled/plastic mulch. growth is so-so.> > in compton, quebec, brianna (@ 4 ft, loam, plastic mulch) is threatening to > take over the vineyard, spp. as it appears to be semi-trailing. hedging will > bring it back under control.> > Radisson/ES517 is also vigourous but a bit more behaved. DM8521 is the > quiet kid.> > martin> > On 4 Aug 2008 at 16:00, Nicholas Carri?re wrote:> > > > > > > I didn't use plastic mulch and the drainage is fairly good. I guess the clay soil doesn?t help!? > > Anyone else?s trying to grown vines in clay?> > > > Doug, what type of soil do you have? What about other varieties, are they also growing that fast?> > > > Merci!> > > > Nicholas Carri?re> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Larry Paterson > > To: dbriden at magma.ca ; growwine at littlefatwino.com > > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:22 PM> > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?> > > > Doug if what I fear happens you will always be able to remove every other vine to get five > > foot in-row spacing. Sounds like your soil is a little vigorous to start with. Can anyone from > > the midwest chip in here?> > > > From my experience and what I've heard the best way to ensure that Frontenac grapes > > have their acidity under control is to ensure that they are well exposed to the sunfrom > > veraison to harvest. Vigorous growth can make this a very tough goal.> > > > We have found that keeping the growth off even our five rows 120 feet long is a chunk of > > work when the buggers want to keep growing. And this year, they just keep growing - > > around Peterborough any sunny day just means you get a chance to cut the tops off the > > mushrooms and clover where your lawn used to grow.> > > > best of luck in any case> > > > Lardy> > > > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc> > (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)> > > > http://www.littlefatwino.com/> > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Briden > > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:07 PM> > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?> > > > > > Larry, this vineyard plot is a much smaller scale area. There are 16 rows a little over 200 feet long > > and 8 feet apart high density planted at 30 inch spacing. Yes I expect alot of hedging and cluster > > thinning but the idea is to go for less fruit of better quality per vine and yield prety much the same > > tonnage per acre but nowhere near enough to fill that monster press Muro has for sale ! When > > installing the plastic mulch my bedder/layer has the option to install drip tubing under the mulch. > > This is the easiest and most cost efficient irrigation and I will likely not have to use it at all next > > year as the roots will be deep enough unless we hit a real dry spell and if we do it's there.> > Doug.> > Luskville, QC> > > > > > > > On Mon 04/08/08 08:20 , "Larry Paterson" littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca sent:> > Doug a question> > > > How far apart are your vines, and what spacing between the rows? If you are feeding them > > more than a tiny amount you may end up spending the rest of your life with a hedge > > trimmer...> > > > Lardy> > > > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc> > (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)> > > > http://www.littlefatwino.com/> > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Briden > > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 12:07 AM> > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?> > > > > > AnthonyCaronewrote> > Youshouldbefineunlesstheyareplantedonplasticmulchoryouhaveanill-drainingsite. > > > > IplantedFrontenacinplasticthisspringadIamintheprocessofinstallingtrellisduetothevigour> > oftheseplantsmostofwhichexceed4feetandmanyover6feet. > > Ican'tcutthegrassbetweentherowsasthetopsofthevineshavegrownwellbeyondtheplantin> > gstakesweputintoholdthemforthefirstyear. Thewoodisalreadystartingtohardenoffnicely. > > Due to the amount of rain I have only irrigated twice this year via drip tape beneath the plastic and > > the second irrigation was primarily for feeding as the vines had enough water. I'll try to post a few > > pictures this week if I get the time.> > > > Cheers,> > > > Doug.> > Luskville,QC> > > > > > > > > > OnSun03/08/0811:19 , CanadaVintagecanadavintage at hotmail.comsent:> > Youshouldbefineunlesstheyareplantedonplasticmulchoryouhavean> > ill-drainingsite. > > > > Pullavineoutandseeifthereisawhitishfungusgrowingontheroots. > > Ifso, > > then, > > Iwouldexpectyoumayhaverootrotoccurringonaccountofallthewater.> > > > > > AnthonyCarone (Zone4b-5a)> > CanadaVintage - CaroneVineyards, adivisionofCaroneEnterprises> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> > www.CanadaVintage.com> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> > > > > > > > > > From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca> > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com> > Date: Sun, 3Aug200810:48:42 -0400> > Subject: [Growwine] Normalgrowth?> > > > > > Goodmorning,> > > > I?mnewintheviticulturefieldandIplanted200newplants (Frontenac, Sabrevois, > > LouiseSwensonandES6-16-30)inJune. Unfortunatelywithalltherainwe'rehaving > > (30daysofraininthelast2months), Idon'tthinktheyaregoingverywell. > > After2monthstheyareaveraging14inchesinheightwithsomeofthemaround24inches. > > Isthisnormalconsideringtheweather? Doesanyonehavethesameproblemthisyear? > > Inperfectconditionshowtallshouldtheybeafter2months?> > > > Thanks> > > > NicholasCarri?re> > Gatineau, Qc> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________> > Growwine mailing list> > Growwine at littlefatwino.com> > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine> > > > > > _______________________________________________> > Growwine mailing list> > Growwine at littlefatwino.com> > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine> > > > _______________________________________________> > Growwine mailing list> > Growwine at littlefatwino.com> > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:38:14 -0400> From: Doug Briden <dbriden at magma.ca>> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?> To: <growwine at littlefatwino.com>> Message-ID: <.1217943494 at magma.ca>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> > > > We have a range of soil types as do most farms. Our upper fields are> on top of a ridge and are comprised mostly of a sandy loam with very> good drainage. This is where I planted in the plastic mulch this year.> The main portions of the vineyard run down the south faced slope and> the soil varies from sandy loam to clay loam to clay. The vines> (Frontenac) are more vigorous in the sandy loam and clay loam areas> than the pure clay by as much as 100% in spots it will be interesting> to see the difference in acid levels between the normal vigour and> high vigor patches as Larry pointed out. The Swenson varieties are> less vigorous than the frontenac but are also doing well (st. Croix,> 5-17, 6-16-30, 8-2-43) and also differ in terms of vigour in the more> loamy soil but not as wide a difference as the Frontenac. I have two> poor performers Louise Swenson and Sabrevois now gone. The sabrevois> was in a poor location (wet) and were planted too late in the year as> for the LS others have said they are much slower so I may give them> another year to see. > > Doug.> On Mon 04/08/08 16:00 , Nicholas Carri?re> nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca sent:> ? > > I didn't use plastic mulch and the drainage is fairly good. I guess> the clay soil doesn?t help!? Anyone else?s trying to grown vines> in clay? > Doug, what type of soil do you have? What about other varieties,> are they also growing that fast? > Merci! > Nicholas Carri?re ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ----- FROM: Larry> Paterson TO: dbriden at magma.ca ; growwine at littlefatwino.com SENT:> Monday, August 04, 2008 3:22 PM SUBJECT: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?> > Doug if what I fear happens you will always be able to remove every> other vine to get five foot in-row spacing. Sounds like your soil is> a little vigorous to start with. Can anyone from the midwest chip in> here? From my experience and what I've heard the best way to ensure> that Frontenac grapes have their acidity under control is to ensure> that they are well exposed to the sun from veraison to harvest. > Vigorous growth can make this a very tough goal. We have found that> keeping the growth off even our five rows 120 feet long is a chunk of> work when the buggers want to keep growing. And this year, they just> keep growing - around Peterborough any sunny day just means you get a> chance to cut the tops off the mushrooms and clover where your lawn> used to grow. best of luck in any case Lardy Larry Paterson,> lfw, rd, adcc> (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels> Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ [1] ----- Original Message> ----- FROM: Doug Briden TO: growwine at littlefatwino.com SENT:> Monday, August 04, 2008 3:07 PM SUBJECT: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?> > Larry, this vineyard plot is a much smaller scale area. There are 16> rows a little over 200 feet long and 8 feet apart high density planted> at 30 inch spacing. Yes I expect alot of hedging and cluster thinning> but the idea is to go for less fruit of better quality per vine and> yield prety much the same tonnage per acre but nowhere near enough to> fill that monster press Muro has for sale ! When installing the> plastic mulch my bedder/layer has the option to install drip tubing> under the mulch. This is the easiest and most cost efficient> irrigation and I will likely not have to use it at all next year as> the roots will be deep enough unless we hit a real dry spell and if we> do it's there. > > Doug. > > Luskville, QC> On Mon 04/08/08 08:20 , "Larry Paterson" littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca> sent:> ? Doug a question How far apart are your vines, and what> spacing between the rows? If you are feeding them more than a tiny> amount you may end up spending the rest of your life with a hedge> trimmer... Lardy Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc> (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels> Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ [2] ----- Original Message> ----- FROM: Doug Briden TO: growwine at littlefatwino.com SENT:> Monday, August 04, 2008 12:07 AM SUBJECT: Re: [Growwine] Normal> growth? > Anthony Carone wrote You should be fine unless they are planted on> plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. I planted Frontenac> in plastic this spring ad I am in the process of installing trellis> due to the vigour of these plants most of which exceed 4 feet and many> over 6 feet. I can't cut the grass between the rows as the tops of the> vines have grown well beyond the planting stakes we put in to hold> them for the first year. The wood is already starting to harden off> nicely. Due to the amount of rain I have only irrigated twice this> year via drip tape beneath the plastic and the second irrigation was> primarily for feeding as the vines had enough water. I'll try to post> a few pictures this week if I get the time. Cheers, Doug.> Luskville,QC > On Sun 03/08/08 11:19 , Canada Vintage canadavintage at hotmail.com> sent:> .hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px;> PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } BODY.hmmessage {> FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma } You should be fine unless they> are planted on plastic mulch or you have an ill-draining site. > Pull a vine out and see if there is a whitish fungus growing on the> roots. If so, > then, I would expect you may have root rot occurring on account of> all the water.> Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)> Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> www.CanadaVintage.com> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> -------------------------> From: nicholas.carriere at videotron.ca> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:48:42 -0400> Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?> Good morning, > I?m new in the viticulture field and I planted 200 new plants> (Frontenac, Sabrevois, Louise Swenson and ES 6-16-30) in June.> Unfortunately with all the rain we're having (30 days of rain in the> last 2 months), I don't think they are going very well. After 2 months> they are averaging 14 inches in height with some of them around 24> inches. Is this normal considering the weather? Does anyone have the> same problem this year? In perfect conditions how tall should they be> after 2 months? > Thanks > Nicholas Carri?re > > Gatineau, Qc> -------------------------> -------------------------> _______________________________________________> Growwine mailing list> Growwine at littlefatwino.com> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine> -------------------------> _______________________________________________> Growwine mailing list> Growwine at littlefatwino.com> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine> -------------------------> _______________________________________________> Growwine mailing list> Growwine at littlefatwino.com> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine> > > Links:> ------> [1] http://www.littlefatwino.com/> [2] http://www.littlefatwino.com/> -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080805/eb437525/attachment.html> > ------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> Growwine mailing list> Growwine at littlefatwino.com> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine> > > End of Growwine Digest, Vol 11, Issue 3> ***************************************
_________________________________________________________________
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From vitiferas at hotmail.com  Tue Aug  5 19:22:14 2008
From: vitiferas at hotmail.com (Jean Houle)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 19:22:14 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
In-Reply-To: <BLU122-W323A5E70D8124356159AFF957B0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.19.1217943536.538.growwine@littlefatwino.com>
	<BLU122-W323A5E70D8124356159AFF957B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W10463FDBBD88FE0C805382AE7B0@phx.gbl>


maybe this.http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/french/crops/hort/news/hortmatt/2006/07hrt06a2.htmJean Houle Charlemagne Quebec Zone de rusticit? 4b-5a du Canada Canada plant hardiness zone 4b-5a Sud-ouest du Qu?bec / Southwest Qu?bec "Petit ou grand, un bon vin a la gueule de l'endroit o? il est n?, et les tripes du bonhomme qui l'a fait." Jacques Puisais "The best chance of success is crossing adaptive hybrids on other adaptive hybrids." Elmer Swenson  
  

From: farmerman007 at hotmail.comTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 17:59:56 -0400Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?


Hello everyone, My name is Jan-Daniel Etter and I live in Navan, Ontario which is about 15 minutes east of Ottawa.  My brother and I have planted 240 plants of Frontenac this spring in a good clay loam soil.  We planted them on a slight slope with tile drainage.  We planted them around the 15 of june and they are growing well without been too vigorous (they are between 2-4 feet high on average).  We didnt have to water them at all up to now.  The only problem we have encountered up to now is a small black insect that can fly who has been eating the leaves.  We have sprayed with an insecticide about 3 weeks ago and we might treat once more before the season is over.  The damage they did wasnt catastrophic but we decided to treat anyways as a precaution.  We first thought that this insect was a soybean aphid but after making some research we realized it wasnt it.  Anyone has an idea of what insect this might be????  Ive been a member of the list for about 3 weeks now and i found the concept really interesting and an excellent source of information.Salutations,Jan-Daniel Etter 
_________________________________________________________________
If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one!
http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208
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From canadavintage at hotmail.com  Tue Aug  5 19:23:45 2008
From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (Canada Vintage)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 19:23:45 -0400
Subject: [Growwine] Normal growth?
In-Reply-To: <BLU122-W323A5E70D8124356159AFF957B0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.19.1217943536.538.growwine@littlefatwino.com>
	<BLU122-W323A5E70D8124356159AFF957B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY113-W19EBA86AF92C52B05BADEEA17B0@phx.gbl>


Japanese beetle if about 1cm long and grape flea beetle if about 2-3 mm long.


Anthony Carone (Zone 4b-5a)
Canada Vintage - Carone Vineyards, a division of Carone Enterprises

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.CanadaVintage.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: farmerman007 at hotmail.com
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 17:59:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Normal growth?








Hello everyone,

 

My name is Jan-Daniel Etter and I live in Navan, Ontario which is about 15 minutes east of Ottawa.  My brother and I have planted 240 plants of Frontenac this spring in a good clay loam soil.  We planted them on a slight slope with tile drainage.  We planted them around the 15 of june and they are growing well without been too vigorous (they are between 2-4 feet high on average).  We didnt have to water them at all up to now.  The only problem we have encountered up to now is a small black insect that can fly who has been eating the leaves.  We have sprayed with an insecticide about 3 weeks ago and we might treat once more before the season is over.  The damage they did wasnt catastrophic but we decided to treat anyways as a precaution.  We first thought that this insect was a soybean aphid but after making some research we realized it wasnt it.  Anyone has an idea of what insect this might be????  
Ive been a member of the list for about 3 weeks now and i found the concept really interesting and an excellent source of information.

Salutations,

Jan-Daniel Etter

> From: growwine-request at littlefatwino.com
> Subject: Growwine Digest, Vol 11, Issue 3
> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:38:56 -0400
> 
> Send Growwine mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: Normal growth? (Nicholas Carri?re)
> 2. (no subject) (Neil)
> 3. Re: Normal growth? (Neil)
> 4. Re: Normal growth? ( Martin Par? )
> 5. Re: Normal growth? (Doug Briden)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:00:45 -0400
> From: Nicholas