From pabls at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 10:34:26 2008 From: pabls at yahoo.com (Paul Bulas) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 07:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <197962.368.qm@web56812.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Lately I've been thinking that some of the obstacles to getting a true artisanal wine culture started across Ontario might stem from the overall views toward alcohol - in addition to the regulatory obstacles we discussed last week (e.g. 5-acre minimum, etc.).? We now have grape varieties that work across much of Central Ontario - so the viticultural difficulties are being fast addressed.? But what about the cultural aspects in general?? Would an overall liberalization of views about public alcohol consumption help a fledgling artisanal wine industry? Each country has its unique history, but I can't help thinking that we in Ontario - and perhaps many more jurisdictions in North America - would do well to re-shape policies concerning public alcohol consumption?along the lines of?those seen in much of Europe.? I can't underestimate how necessary it is to bring quality artisanal wine and beer into the mainstream by emphasizing that these are culinary products; "art of the land", if you will.? Without a change in overal mentality, I think there will continue to be an uphill battle because artisanal wines will just be seen as a "special occasion" thing; a?knick-knack; something you get for someone on their birthday or anniversary but nothing you'd ever dream of getting even just for yourself to have with supper. Any thoughts? __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/1d7c875a/attachment.html From rwdbest at sympatico.ca Wed Jul 2 12:04:08 2008 From: rwdbest at sympatico.ca (Richard Best) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 11:04:08 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? In-Reply-To: <197962.368.qm@web56812.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <197962.368.qm@web56812.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <486BA6F8.2030504@sympatico.ca> Paul Bulas wrote: > Lately I've been thinking that some of the obstacles to getting a true > artisanal wine culture started across Ontario might stem from the > overall views toward alcohol - in addition to the regulatory obstacles > we discussed last week (e.g. 5-acre minimum, etc.). We now have grape > varieties that work across much of Central Ontario - so the > viticultural difficulties are being fast addressed. But what about > the cultural aspects in general? Would an overall liberalization of > views about public alcohol consumption help a fledgling artisanal wine > industry? I had an interesting experience last night. We went to an Italian style restaurant and ended up buying a wine from NOTL. There were a few Ontario wines on the list, but this one was the cheapest at $32 (remember that tax is added on to this). It was a cab-merlot, typical of Niagara Cab: green, weedy, unripe. Not bad but something your average cab buyer would never touch again -- nor any other Ontario cab I bet. Job one is to make sure the grapes are suitable to the land. Job two is to educate the public that there's more to life than Cabernet. I also think that everyone would benefit from less abusive markups in restaurants. $32 plus tax for a mediocre $12 wine is not helping to promote wine. As for encouraging more drinking ... isn't that the LCBO's job? Regards, Richard Best - The Frugal Oenophile "Use it up; wear it out; make it last" And please don't leave your vehicle idling. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/187d1f38/attachment-0001.html From ryan.daum at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 11:06:22 2008 From: ryan.daum at gmail.com (Ryan) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:06:22 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? In-Reply-To: <197962.368.qm@web56812.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <197962.368.qm@web56812.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5e5a8c000807020806r46832a30o87b04623340f447e@mail.gmail.com> This speaks to a bigger question, I think; while I like wine from diverse regions and especially from close to home, I do think there is probably a hard economic limit on the feasibility of wine production "everywhere." I think you touch on this, but it may be that beyond the problems of the LCBO monopoly and regulatory problems in Ontario there just isn't much of a market for wine that may be produced if those regulations were to be loosened. That said, I just wish it was possible to produce and market small-scale wine in Ontario just like any other food product -- at farmer's markets, etc. I would love to have a couple acres of grapes and make wine part-time, and be able to sell it to friends, at market, etc. Ryan On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Paul Bulas wrote: > Lately I've been thinking that some of the obstacles to getting a true > artisanal wine culture started across Ontario might stem from the overall > views toward alcohol - in addition to the regulatory obstacles we discussed > last week (e.g. 5-acre minimum, etc.). We now have grape varieties that > work across much of Central Ontario - so the viticultural difficulties are > being fast addressed. But what about the cultural aspects in general? > Would an overall liberalization of views about public alcohol consumption > help a fledgling artisanal wine industry? > > Each country has its unique history, but I can't help thinking that we in > Ontario - and perhaps many more jurisdictions in North America - would do > well to re-shape policies concerning public alcohol consumption along the > lines of those seen in much of Europe. I can't underestimate how necessary > it is to bring quality artisanal wine and beer into the mainstream by > emphasizing that these are culinary products; "art of the land", if you > will. Without a change in overal mentality, I think there will continue to > be an uphill battle because artisanal wines will just be seen as a "special > occasion" thing; a knick-knack; something you get for someone on their > birthday or anniversary but nothing you'd ever dream of getting even just > for yourself to have with supper. > > Any thoughts? > > > ________________________________ > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! > Answers. > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Wed Jul 2 11:48:20 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 08:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <701245.2659.qm@web32107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It would be nice to sell wine at the farmers market.We where at the one in St Jacobs an Ocalo had their wine for sale there. We sold a quanity of our vines this year to be made into juice an to be?sold at the welland an Niagara farmers market. Maurice? ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:06:22 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? This speaks to a bigger question, I think; while I like wine from diverse regions and especially from close to home, I do think there is probably a hard economic limit on the feasibility of wine production "everywhere."? I think you touch on this, but it may be that beyond the problems of the LCBO monopoly and regulatory problems in Ontario there just isn't much of a market for wine that may be produced if those regulations were to be loosened. That said, I just wish it was possible to produce and market small-scale wine in Ontario just like any other food product -- at farmer's markets, etc.? I would love to have a couple acres of grapes and make wine part-time, and be able to sell it to friends, at market, etc. Ryan On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Paul Bulas wrote: > Lately I've been thinking that some of the obstacles to getting a true > artisanal wine culture started across Ontario might stem from the overall > views toward alcohol - in addition to the regulatory obstacles we discussed > last week (e.g. 5-acre minimum, etc.).? We now have grape varieties that > work across much of Central Ontario - so the viticultural difficulties are > being fast addressed.? But what about the cultural aspects in general? > Would an overall liberalization of views about public alcohol consumption > help a fledgling artisanal wine industry? > > Each country has its unique history, but I can't help thinking that we in > Ontario - and perhaps many more jurisdictions in North America - would do > well to re-shape policies concerning public alcohol consumption along the > lines of those seen in much of Europe.? I can't underestimate how necessary > it is to bring quality artisanal wine and beer into the mainstream by > emphasizing that these are culinary products; "art of the land", if you > will.? Without a change in overal mentality, I think there will continue to > be an uphill battle because artisanal wines will just be seen as a "special > occasion" thing; a knick-knack; something you get for someone on their > birthday or anniversary but nothing you'd ever dream of getting even just > for yourself to have with supper. > > Any thoughts? > > > ________________________________ > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! > Answers. > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/1a681297/attachment.html From pabls at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 11:53:44 2008 From: pabls at yahoo.com (Paul Bulas) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 08:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <44233.69454.qm@web56809.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Very true - and it would make sense, showing that making wine is largely about ... farming!? I love the way that they use the words "wine farm" in South Africa quite a bit.? Everywhere else, the language tends to be more uppity.? Maybe tying in wine with farming would be a great first step in the right direction. Is there anything other than red tape holding this back at present? ----- Original Message ---- From: melissa lounsbury To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:48:20 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? It would be nice to sell wine at the farmers market.We where at the one in St Jacobs an Ocalo had their wine for sale there. We sold a quanity of our vines this year to be made into juice an to be?sold at the welland an Niagara farmers market. Maurice? ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:06:22 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? This speaks to a bigger question, I think; while I like wine from diverse regions and especially from close to home, I do think there is probably a hard economic limit on the feasibility of wine production "everywhere."? I think you touch on this, but it may be that beyond the problems of the LCBO monopoly and regulatory problems in Ontario there just isn't much of a market for wine that may be produced if those regulations were to be loosened. That said, I just wish it was possible to produce and market small-scale wine in Ontario just like any other food product -- at farmer's markets, etc.? I would love to have a couple acres of grapes and make wine part-time, and be able to sell it to friends, at market, etc. Ryan On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Paul Bulas wrote: > Lately I've been thinking that some of the obstacles to getting a true > artisanal wine culture started across Ontario might stem from the overall > views toward alcohol - in addition to the regulatory obstacles we discussed > last week (e.g. 5-acre minimum, etc.).? We now have grape varieties that > work across much of Central Ontario - so the viticultural difficulties are > being fast addressed.? But what about the cultural aspects in general? > Would an overall liberalization of views about public alcohol consumption > help a fledgling artisanal wine industry? > > Each country has its unique history, but I can't help thinking that we in > Ontario - and perhaps many more jurisdictions in North America - would do > well to re-shape policies concerning public alcohol consumption along the > lines of those seen in much of Europe.? I can't underestimate how necessary > it is to bring quality artisanal wine and beer into the mainstream by > emphasizing that these are culinary products; "art of the land", if you > will.? Without a change in overal mentality, I think there will continue to > be an uphill battle because artisanal wines will just be seen as a "special > occasion" thing; a knick-knack; something you get for someone on their > birthday or anniversary but nothing you'd ever dream of getting even just > for yourself to have with supper. > > Any thoughts? > > > ________________________________ > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! > Answers. > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/8adc64e9/attachment.html From ryan.daum at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 12:03:09 2008 From: ryan.daum at gmail.com (Ryan) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 12:03:09 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? In-Reply-To: <701245.2659.qm@web32107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <701245.2659.qm@web32107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5e5a8c000807020903u5a5c203ere9e732a66b6cbccd@mail.gmail.com> How did Ocala have their wine for sale at St Jacob's? Not legal is it? Ryan On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 11:48 AM, melissa lounsbury wrote: > It would be nice to sell wine at the farmers market.We where at the one in > St Jacobs an Ocalo had their wine for sale there. We sold a quanity of our > vines this year to be made into juice an to be sold at the welland an > Niagara farmers market. Maurice > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ryan > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:06:22 AM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the > battle? > > This speaks to a bigger question, I think; while I like wine from > diverse regions and especially from close to home, I do think there is > probably a hard economic limit on the feasibility of wine production > "everywhere." I think you touch on this, but it may be that beyond > the problems of the LCBO monopoly and regulatory problems in Ontario > there just isn't much of a market for wine that may be produced if > those regulations were to be loosened. > > That said, I just wish it was possible to produce and market > small-scale wine in Ontario just like any other food product -- at > farmer's markets, etc. I would love to have a couple acres of grapes > and make wine part-time, and be able to sell it to friends, at market, > etc. > > Ryan > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Paul Bulas wrote: >> Lately I've been thinking that some of the obstacles to getting a true >> artisanal wine culture started across Ontario might stem from the overall >> views toward alcohol - in addition to the regulatory obstacles we >> discussed >> last week (e.g. 5-acre minimum, etc.). We now have grape varieties that >> work across much of Central Ontario - so the viticultural difficulties are >> being fast addressed. But what about the cultural aspects in general? >> Would an overall liberalization of views about public alcohol consumption >> help a fledgling artisanal wine industry? >> >> Each country has its unique history, but I can't help thinking that we in >> Ontario - and perhaps many more jurisdictions in North America - would do >> well to re-shape policies concerning public alcohol consumption along the >> lines of those seen in much of Europe. I can't underestimate how >> necessary >> it is to bring quality artisanal wine and beer into the mainstream by >> emphasizing that these are culinary products; "art of the land", if you >> will. Without a change in overal mentality, I think there will continue >> to >> be an uphill battle because artisanal wines will just be seen as a >> "special >> occasion" thing; a knick-knack; something you get for someone on their >> birthday or anniversary but nothing you'd ever dream of getting even just >> for yourself to have with supper. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> >> ________________________________ >> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! >> Answers. >> _______________________________________________ >> Growwine mailing list >> Growwine at littlefatwino.com >> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > From laura-sabourin at sympatico.ca Wed Jul 2 12:11:13 2008 From: laura-sabourin at sympatico.ca (Laura) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 12:11:13 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? References: <701245.2659.qm@web32107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: how can anyone be selling wine at the Farmers markets in Ontario ? I would get a license if I could do this Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: melissa lounsbury To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? It would be nice to sell wine at the farmers market.We where at the one in St Jacobs an Ocalo had their wine for sale there. We sold a quanity of our vines this year to be made into juice an to be sold at the welland an Niagara farmers market. Maurice ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:06:22 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? This speaks to a bigger question, I think; while I like wine from diverse regions and especially from close to home, I do think there is probably a hard economic limit on the feasibility of wine production "everywhere." I think you touch on this, but it may be that beyond the problems of the LCBO monopoly and regulatory problems in Ontario there just isn't much of a market for wine that may be produced if those regulations were to be loosened. That said, I just wish it was possible to produce and market small-scale wine in Ontario just like any other food product -- at farmer's markets, etc. I would love to have a couple acres of grapes and make wine part-time, and be able to sell it to friends, at market, etc. Ryan On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Paul Bulas wrote: > Lately I've been thinking that some of the obstacles to getting a true > artisanal wine culture started across Ontario might stem from the overall > views toward alcohol - in addition to the regulatory obstacles we discussed > last week (e.g. 5-acre minimum, etc.). We now have grape varieties that > work across much of Central Ontario - so the viticultural difficulties are > being fast addressed. But what about the cultural aspects in general? > Would an overall liberalization of views about public alcohol consumption > help a fledgling artisanal wine industry? > > Each country has its unique history, but I can't help thinking that we in > Ontario - and perhaps many more jurisdictions in North America - would do > well to re-shape policies concerning public alcohol consumption along the > lines of those seen in much of Europe. I can't underestimate how necessary > it is to bring quality artisanal wine and beer into the mainstream by > emphasizing that these are culinary products; "art of the land", if you > will. Without a change in overal mentality, I think there will continue to > be an uphill battle because artisanal wines will just be seen as a "special > occasion" thing; a knick-knack; something you get for someone on their > birthday or anniversary but nothing you'd ever dream of getting even just > for yourself to have with supper. > > Any thoughts? > > > ________________________________ > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! > Answers. > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/0858748c/attachment.html From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Wed Jul 2 12:12:29 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 09:12:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <696692.84045.qm@web32104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have no idea.The people where not from Ocala because I asked if they where some of the family. ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:03:09 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? How did Ocala have their wine for sale at St Jacob's?? Not legal is it? Ryan On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 11:48 AM, melissa lounsbury wrote: > It would be nice to sell wine at the farmers market.We where at the one in > St Jacobs an Ocalo had their wine for sale there. We sold a quanity of our > vines this year to be made into juice an to be sold at the welland an > Niagara farmers market. Maurice > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ryan > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:06:22 AM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the > battle? > > This speaks to a bigger question, I think; while I like wine from > diverse regions and especially from close to home, I do think there is > probably a hard economic limit on the feasibility of wine production > "everywhere."? I think you touch on this, but it may be that beyond > the problems of the LCBO monopoly and regulatory problems in Ontario > there just isn't much of a market for wine that may be produced if > those regulations were to be loosened. > > That said, I just wish it was possible to produce and market > small-scale wine in Ontario just like any other food product -- at > farmer's markets, etc.? I would love to have a couple acres of grapes > and make wine part-time, and be able to sell it to friends, at market, > etc. > > Ryan > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Paul Bulas wrote: >> Lately I've been thinking that some of the obstacles to getting a true >> artisanal wine culture started across Ontario might stem from the overall >> views toward alcohol - in addition to the regulatory obstacles we >> discussed >> last week (e.g. 5-acre minimum, etc.).? We now have grape varieties that >> work across much of Central Ontario - so the viticultural difficulties are >> being fast addressed.? But what about the cultural aspects in general? >> Would an overall liberalization of views about public alcohol consumption >> help a fledgling artisanal wine industry? >> >> Each country has its unique history, but I can't help thinking that we in >> Ontario - and perhaps many more jurisdictions in North America - would do >> well to re-shape policies concerning public alcohol consumption along the >> lines of those seen in much of Europe.? I can't underestimate how >> necessary >> it is to bring quality artisanal wine and beer into the mainstream by >> emphasizing that these are culinary products; "art of the land", if you >> will.? Without a change in overal mentality, I think there will continue >> to >> be an uphill battle because artisanal wines will just be seen as a >> "special >> occasion" thing; a knick-knack; something you get for someone on their >> birthday or anniversary but nothing you'd ever dream of getting even just >> for yourself to have with supper. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> >> ________________________________ >> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! >> Answers. >> _______________________________________________ >> Growwine mailing list >> Growwine at littlefatwino.com >> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/5d0c5118/attachment.html From pabls at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 12:14:54 2008 From: pabls at yahoo.com (Paul Bulas) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 09:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <433904.73703.qm@web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Some things I'd love to see in Ontario: * Legal wine sales at farmer's markets * Abolition or reduction of?minimum acreage requirement for artisanal wineries * A less "commodified" view of food * Total free trade in wine from any jurisdiction into Ontario - give consumers an easy way to pay the sales tax and prove that we are of age,?and let us order Norton from Missouri, Frontenac from Quebec, etc. with unfettered ease * Change regulations so that having a bottle of wine during a family picnic is not illegal * Actively promote "cultured" consumption of alcohol - e.g. education programs As many of these points take a poke at societal norms, it will no doubt be an uphill battle. ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:03:09 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? How did Ocala have their wine for sale at St Jacob's?? Not legal is it? Ryan On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 11:48 AM, melissa lounsbury wrote: > It would be nice to sell wine at the farmers market.We where at the one in > St Jacobs an Ocalo had their wine for sale there. We sold a quanity of our > vines this year to be made into juice an to be sold at the welland an > Niagara farmers market. Maurice __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Wed Jul 2 12:17:03 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 09:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <99824.76093.qm@web32103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> There seems to be all avenues to be looked into, like the farmers market because a lot of the people who come there are not looking for wine.A new line will lead them to trying some. Maurice. ----- Original Message ---- From: Paul Bulas To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:53:44 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Very true - and it would make sense, showing that making wine is largely about ... farming!? ? I love the way that they use the words "wine farm" in South Africa quite a bit.? Everywhere else, the language tends to be more uppity.? Maybe tying in wine with farming would be a great first step in the right direction. ? Is there anything other than red tape holding this back at present? ----- Original Message ---- From: melissa lounsbury To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:48:20 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? It would be nice to sell wine at the farmers market.We where at the one in St Jacobs an Ocalo had their wine for sale there. We sold a quanity of our vines this year to be made into juice an to be?sold at the welland an Niagara farmers market. Maurice? ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:06:22 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? This speaks to a bigger question, I think; while I like wine from diverse regions and especially from close to home, I do think there is probably a hard economic limit on the feasibility of wine production "everywhere."? I think you touch on this, but it may be that beyond the problems of the LCBO monopoly and regulatory problems in Ontario there just isn't much of a market for wine that may be produced if those regulations were to be loosened. That said, I just wish it was possible to produce and market small-scale wine in Ontario just like any other food product -- at farmer's markets, etc.? I would love to have a couple acres of grapes and make wine part-time, and be able to sell it to friends, at market, etc. Ryan On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Paul Bulas wrote: > Lately I've been thinking that some of the obstacles to getting a true > artisanal wine culture started across Ontario might stem from the overall > views toward alcohol - in addition to the regulatory obstacles we discussed > last week (e.g. 5-acre minimum, etc.).? We now have grape varieties that > work across much of Central Ontario - so the viticultural difficulties are > being fast addressed.? But what about the cultural aspects in general? > Would an overall liberalization of views about public alcohol consumption > help a fledgling artisanal wine industry? > > Each country has its unique history, but I can't help thinking that we in > Ontario - and perhaps many more jurisdictions in North America - would do > well to re-shape policies concerning public alcohol consumption along the > lines of those seen in much of Europe.? I can't underestimate how necessary > it is to bring quality artisanal wine and beer into the mainstream by > emphasizing that these are culinary products; "art of the land", if you > will.? Without a change in overal mentality, I think there will continue to > be an uphill battle because artisanal wines will just be seen as a "special > occasion" thing; a knick-knack; something you get for someone on their > birthday or anniversary but nothing you'd ever dream of getting even just > for yourself to have with supper. > > Any thoughts? > > > ________________________________ > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! > Answers. > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/3ee05f2e/attachment.html From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Wed Jul 2 12:20:40 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 09:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <995708.79505.qm@web32103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Its possible they bought the wine an was just turning over.I know the people that was with us said the same thing. ----- Original Message ---- From: Laura To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:11:13 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? how can anyone be selling wine at the Farmers markets in Ontario ? I would get a license if I could do this ? Laura ? ----- Original Message ----- From: melissa lounsbury To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? It would be nice to sell wine at the farmers market.We where at the one in St Jacobs an Ocalo had their wine for sale there. We sold a quanity of our vines this year to be made into juice an to be?sold at the welland an Niagara farmers market. Maurice? ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:06:22 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? This speaks to a bigger question, I think; while I like wine from diverse regions and especially from close to home, I do think there is probably a hard economic limit on the feasibility of wine production "everywhere."? I think you touch on this, but it may be that beyond the problems of the LCBO monopoly and regulatory problems in Ontario there just isn't much of a market for wine that may be produced if those regulations were to be loosened. That said, I just wish it was possible to produce and market small-scale wine in Ontario just like any other food product -- at farmer's markets, etc.? I would love to have a couple acres of grapes and make wine part-time, and be able to sell it to friends, at market, etc. Ryan On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Paul Bulas wrote: > Lately I've been thinking that some of the obstacles to getting a true > artisanal wine culture started across Ontario might stem from the overall > views toward alcohol - in addition to the regulatory obstacles we discussed > last week (e.g. 5-acre minimum, etc.).? We now have grape varieties that > work across much of Central Ontario - so the viticultural difficulties are > being fast addressed.? But what about the cultural aspects in general? > Would an overall liberalization of views about public alcohol consumption > help a fledgling artisanal wine industry? > > Each country has its unique history, but I can't help thinking that we in > Ontario - and perhaps many more jurisdictions in North America - would do > well to re-shape policies concerning public alcohol consumption along the > lines of those seen in much of Europe.? I can't underestimate how necessary > it is to bring quality artisanal wine and beer into the mainstream by > emphasizing that these are culinary products; "art of the land", if you > will.? Without a change in overal mentality, I think there will continue to > be an uphill battle because artisanal wines will just be seen as a "special > occasion" thing; a knick-knack; something you get for someone on their > birthday or anniversary but nothing you'd ever dream of getting even just > for yourself to have with supper. > > Any thoughts? > > > ________________________________ > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! > Answers. > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/8876a182/attachment.html From pabls at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 12:23:30 2008 From: pabls at yahoo.com (Paul Bulas) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 09:23:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <56535.89173.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> You know, Maurice, that is just it:? People aren't looking for wine at farmer's markets, most likely because wine has never been associated with them in recent memory at least.? But if it were - and not just wine, but real, artisanal hard cider and beer for that matter - people would naturally make the association.? Jams, cookies and pies are fine, but quality artisanal alcoholic beverages aren't ... I think we need to move past the prohibitionist hangover as a society. ----- Original Message ---- From: melissa lounsbury To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:17:03 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? There seems to be all avenues to be looked into, like the farmers market because a lot of the people who come there are not looking for wine.A new line will lead them to trying some. Maurice. __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca From neil at coffinridge.ca Wed Jul 2 12:36:27 2008 From: neil at coffinridge.ca (Neil) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 12:36:27 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? In-Reply-To: <696692.84045.qm@web32104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <696692.84045.qm@web32104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F00413465C@hosted4.myexchange.ad> Ocala makes sparkling juice too. This is likely what you saw. It is in a 750 ml bottle with cage. Neil ________________________________ From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of melissa lounsbury Sent: July 2, 2008 12:12 To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? I have no idea.The people where not from Ocala because I asked if they where some of the family. ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:03:09 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? How did Ocala have their wine for sale at St Jacob's? Not legal is it? Ryan On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 11:48 AM, melissa lounsbury wrote: > It would be nice to sell wine at the farmers market.We where at the one in > St Jacobs an Ocalo had their wine for sale there. We sold a quanity of our > vines this year to be made into juice an to be sold at the welland an > Niagara farmers market. Maurice > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ryan > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:06:22 AM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the > battle? > > This speaks to a bigger question, I think; while I like wine from > diverse regions and especially from close to home, I do think there is > probably a hard economic limit on the feasibility of wine production > "everywhere." I think you touch on this, but it may be that beyond > the problems of the LCBO monopoly and regulatory problems in Ontario > there just isn't much of a market for wine that may be produced if > those regulations were to be loosened. > > That said, I just wish it was possible to produce and market > small-scale wine in Ontario just like any other food product -- at > farmer's markets, etc. I would love to have a couple acres of grapes > and make wine part-time, and be able to sell it to friends, at market, > etc. > > Ryan > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Paul Bulas wrote: >> Lately I've been thinking that some of the obstacles to getting a true >> artisanal wine culture started across Ontario might stem from the overall >> views toward alcohol - in addition to the regulatory obstacles we >> discussed >> last week (e.g. 5-acre minimum, etc.). We now have grape varieties that >> work across much of Central Ontario - so the viticultural difficulties are >> being fast addressed. But what about the cultural aspects in general? >> Would an overall liberalization of views about public alcohol consumption >> help a fledgling artisanal wine industry? >> >> Each country has its unique history, but I can't help thinking that we in >> Ontario - and perhaps many more jurisdictions in North America - would do >> well to re-shape policies concerning public alcohol consumption along the >> lines of those seen in much of Europe. I can't underestimate how >> necessary >> it is to bring quality artisanal wine and beer into the mainstream by >> emphasizing that these are culinary products; "art of the land", if you >> will. Without a change in overal mentality, I think there will continue >> to >> be an uphill battle because artisanal wines will just be seen as a >> "special >> occasion" thing; a knick-knack; something you get for someone on their >> birthday or anniversary but nothing you'd ever dream of getting even just >> for yourself to have with supper. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> >> ________________________________ >> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! >> Answers. >> _______________________________________________ >> Growwine mailing list >> Growwine at littlefatwino.com >> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/aa9e5d5e/attachment-0001.html From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Wed Jul 2 12:44:26 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 09:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <15016.23303.qm@web32101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I know they had that to, but it was a sparking wine.At the time Is should have bought it an brought it home. The price was 18.00 per bottle. ----- Original Message ---- From: Neil To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:36:27 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Ocalamakes sparkling juice too. This is likely what you saw. It is in a 750 ml bottle with cage. ? Neil ? ________________________________ From:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of melissa lounsbury Sent: July 2, 2008 12:12 To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario 's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? ? I have no idea.The people where not from Ocala because I asked if they where some of the family. ? ? ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:03:09 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario 's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? How did Ocala have their wine for sale at St Jacob's?? Not legal is it? Ryan On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 11:48 AM, melissa lounsbury wrote: > It would be nice to sell wine at the farmers market.We where at the one in > St Jacobs an Ocalo had their wine for sale there. We sold a quanity of our > vines this year to be made into juice an to be sold at the welland an > Niagara farmers market. Maurice > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ryan > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:06:22 AM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario 's drinking culture: A big part of the > battle? > > This speaks to a bigger question, I think; while I like wine from > diverse regions and especially from close to home, I do think there is > probably a hard economic limit on the feasibility of wine production > "everywhere."? I think you touch on this, but it may be that beyond > the problems of the LCBO monopoly and regulatory problems in Ontario > there just isn't much of a market for wine that may be produced if > those regulations were to be loosened. > > That said, I just wish it was possible to produce and market > small-scale wine in Ontario just like any other food product -- at > farmer's markets, etc.? I would love to have a couple acres of grapes > and make wine part-time, and be able to sell it to friends, at market, > etc. > > Ryan > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Paul Bulas wrote: >> Lately I've been thinking that some of the obstacles to getting a true >> artisanal wine culture started across Ontario might stem from the overall >> views toward alcohol - in addition to the regulatory obstacles we >> discussed >> last week (e.g. 5-acre minimum, etc.).? We now have grape varieties that >> work across much of Central Ontario - so the viticultural difficulties are >> being fast addressed.? But what about the cultural aspects in general? >> Would an overall liberalization of views about public alcohol consumption >> help a fledgling artisanal wine industry? >> >> Each country has its unique history, but I can't help thinking that we in >> Ontario - and perhaps many more jurisdictions in North America - would do >> well to re-shape policies concerning public alcohol consumption along the >> lines of those seen in much of Europe .? I can't underestimate how >> necessary >> it is to bring quality artisanal wine and beer into the mainstream by >> emphasizing that these are culinary products; "art of the land", if you >> will.? Without a change in overal mentality, I think there will continue >> to >> be an uphill battle because artisanal wines will just be seen as a >> "special >> occasion" thing; a knick-knack; something you get for someone on their >> birthday or anniversary but nothing you'd ever dream of getting even just >> for yourself to have with supper. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> >> ________________________________ >> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! >> Answers. >> _______________________________________________ >> Growwine mailing list >> Growwine at littlefatwino.com >> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/45e735e3/attachment.html From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Wed Jul 2 12:58:38 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 09:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <18794.58164.qm@web32105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You know Paul. When you go to these markets people are always looking for something different.They also are looking for samples like Cosco. ----- Original Message ---- From: Paul Bulas To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:23:30 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? You know, Maurice, that is just it:? People aren't looking for wine at farmer's markets, most likely because wine has never been associated with them in recent memory at least.? But if it were - and not just wine, but real, artisanal hard cider and beer for that matter - people would naturally make the association.? Jams, cookies and pies are fine, but quality artisanal alcoholic beverages aren't ... I think we need to move past the prohibitionist hangover as a society. ----- Original Message ---- From: melissa lounsbury To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:17:03 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? There seems to be all avenues to be looked into, like the farmers market because a lot of the people who come there are not looking for wine.A new line will lead them to trying some. Maurice. ? ? ? __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail.? Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/6844cc7f/attachment.html From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Wed Jul 2 13:01:25 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 10:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <380960.58229.qm@web32107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Also Paul is there a law out there that says you can not sell wine at the farmers market.Its a product of the farm. ----- Original Message ---- From: Paul Bulas To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:23:30 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? You know, Maurice, that is just it:? People aren't looking for wine at farmer's markets, most likely because wine has never been associated with them in recent memory at least.? But if it were - and not just wine, but real, artisanal hard cider and beer for that matter - people would naturally make the association.? Jams, cookies and pies are fine, but quality artisanal alcoholic beverages aren't ... I think we need to move past the prohibitionist hangover as a society. ----- Original Message ---- From: melissa lounsbury To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:17:03 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? There seems to be all avenues to be looked into, like the farmers market because a lot of the people who come there are not looking for wine.A new line will lead them to trying some. Maurice. ? ? ? __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail.? Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/a56356f2/attachment.html From ryan.daum at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 13:05:36 2008 From: ryan.daum at gmail.com (Ryan) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 13:05:36 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? In-Reply-To: <380960.58229.qm@web32107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <380960.58229.qm@web32107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5e5a8c000807021005t28af9353x6748d904035bf939@mail.gmail.com> There are AGCO laws which govern the sale and production of alcohol in general. Ryan On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:01 PM, melissa lounsbury wrote: > Also Paul is there a law out there that says you can not sell wine at the > farmers market.Its a product of the farm. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Paul Bulas > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:23:30 PM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the > battle? > > You know, Maurice, that is just it: People aren't looking for wine at > farmer's markets, most likely because wine has never been associated with > them in recent memory at least. But if it were - and not just wine, but > real, artisanal hard cider and beer for that matter - people would naturally > make the association. Jams, cookies and pies are fine, but quality > artisanal alcoholic beverages aren't ... I think we need to move past the > prohibitionist hangover as a society. > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: melissa lounsbury > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:17:03 PM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the > battle? > > > There seems to be all avenues to be looked into, like the farmers market > because a lot of the people who come there are not looking for wine.A new > line will lead them to trying some. Maurice. > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the > boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to > New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Wed Jul 2 13:50:46 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 10:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <804192.76841.qm@web32102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Do they specifi farmers markets or farmers produce. ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 1:05:36 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? There are AGCO laws which govern the sale and production of alcohol in general. Ryan On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:01 PM, melissa lounsbury wrote: > Also Paul is there a law out there that says you can not sell wine at the > farmers market.Its a product of the farm. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Paul Bulas > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:23:30 PM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the > battle? > > You know, Maurice, that is just it:? People aren't looking for wine at > farmer's markets, most likely because wine has never been associated with > them in recent memory at least.? But if it were - and not just wine, but > real, artisanal hard cider and beer for that matter - people would naturally > make the association.? Jams, cookies and pies are fine, but quality > artisanal alcoholic beverages aren't ... I think we need to move past the > prohibitionist hangover as a society. > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: melissa lounsbury > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:17:03 PM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the > battle? > > > There seems to be all avenues to be looked into, like the farmers market > because a lot of the people who come there are not looking for wine.A new > line will lead them to trying some. Maurice. > > >? ? ? __________________________________________________________________ > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the > boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail.? Click on Options in Mail and switch to > New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/e4d4221e/attachment.html From pabls at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 14:06:05 2008 From: pabls at yahoo.com (Paul Bulas) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:06:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <16353.28111.qm@web56804.mail.re3.yahoo.com> It might be a useful idea to consider modelling our laws on those used in more "progressive" jurisdictions where wine is understood as a culinary accompaniment (and possibly an artform) and not simply in dry terms, as an "intoxicant".? The overall regulatory climate seems to be predicated on curbing the social ills of alcohol abuse (real as they are) rather than promoting artisanal wines as something that has cultural value.? And it's not just wine - local agriculture in general should be promoted more.? Doing so will of course present challenges, but would likely steer things away from that dry commodified mentality into something more holistic.? Such are my 2?. ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 1:05:36 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? There are AGCO laws which govern the sale and production of alcohol in general. Ryan __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca From neil at coffinridge.ca Wed Jul 2 14:13:17 2008 From: neil at coffinridge.ca (Neil) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 14:13:17 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? In-Reply-To: <15016.23303.qm@web32101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <15016.23303.qm@web32101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F0041346A3@hosted4.myexchange.ad> Check their website ocalawinery.com, They do not have a sparkling wine rater three juices. ________________________________ From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of melissa lounsbury Sent: July 2, 2008 12:44 To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? I know they had that to, but it was a sparking wine.At the time Is should have bought it an brought it home. The price was 18.00 per bottle. ----- Original Message ---- From: Neil To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:36:27 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Ocala makes sparkling juice too. This is likely what you saw. It is in a 750 ml bottle with cage. Neil ________________________________ From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of melissa lounsbury Sent: July 2, 2008 12:12 To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario 's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? I have no idea.The people where not from Ocala because I asked if they where some of the family. ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:03:09 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario 's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? How did Ocala have their wine for sale at St Jacob's? Not legal is it? Ryan On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 11:48 AM, melissa lounsbury wrote: > It would be nice to sell wine at the farmers market.We where at the one in > St Jacobs an Ocalo had their wine for sale there. We sold a quanity of our > vines this year to be made into juice an to be sold at the welland an > Niagara farmers market. Maurice > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ryan > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:06:22 AM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario 's drinking culture: A big part of the > battle? > > This speaks to a bigger question, I think; while I like wine from > diverse regions and especially from close to home, I do think there is > probably a hard economic limit on the feasibility of wine production > "everywhere." I think you touch on this, but it may be that beyond > the problems of the LCBO monopoly and regulatory problems in Ontario > there just isn't much of a market for wine that may be produced if > those regulations were to be loosened. > > That said, I just wish it was possible to produce and market > small-scale wine in Ontario just like any other food product -- at > farmer's markets, etc. I would love to have a couple acres of grapes > and make wine part-time, and be able to sell it to friends, at market, > etc. > > Ryan > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Paul Bulas wrote: >> Lately I've been thinking that some of the obstacles to getting a true >> artisanal wine culture started across Ontario might stem from the overall >> views toward alcohol - in addition to the regulatory obstacles we >> discussed >> last week (e.g. 5-acre minimum, etc.). We now have grape varieties that >> work across much of Central Ontario - so the viticultural difficulties are >> being fast addressed. But what about the cultural aspects in general? >> Would an overall liberalization of views about public alcohol consumption >> help a fledgling artisanal wine industry? >> >> Each country has its unique history, but I can't help thinking that we in >> Ontario - and perhaps many more jurisdictions in North America - would do >> well to re-shape policies concerning public alcohol consumption along the >> lines of those seen in much of Europe . I can't underestimate how >> necessary >> it is to bring quality artisanal wine and beer into the mainstream by >> emphasizing that these are culinary products; "art of the land", if you >> will. Without a change in overal mentality, I think there will continue >> to >> be an uphill battle because artisanal wines will just be seen as a >> "special >> occasion" thing; a knick-knack; something you get for someone on their >> birthday or anniversary but nothing you'd ever dream of getting even just >> for yourself to have with supper. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> >> ________________________________ >> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! >> Answers. >> _______________________________________________ >> Growwine mailing list >> Growwine at littlefatwino.com >> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/727cfad4/attachment.html From ryan.daum at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 14:15:04 2008 From: ryan.daum at gmail.com (Ryan) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 14:15:04 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? In-Reply-To: <16353.28111.qm@web56804.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <16353.28111.qm@web56804.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5e5a8c000807021115u131e7798uc37a2610cd285e46@mail.gmail.com> Probably you're preaching to the choir. On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Paul Bulas wrote: > It might be a useful idea to consider modelling our laws on those used in more "progressive" jurisdictions where wine is understood as a culinary accompaniment (and possibly an artform) and not simply in dry terms, as an "intoxicant". The overall regulatory climate seems to be predicated on curbing the social ills of alcohol abuse (real as they are) rather than promoting artisanal wines as something that has cultural value. And it's not just wine - local agriculture in general should be promoted more. Doing so will of course present challenges, but would likely steer things away from that dry commodified mentality into something more holistic. Such are my 2?. > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ryan > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 1:05:36 PM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? > > There are AGCO laws which govern the sale and production of alcohol in general. > > Ryan > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Wed Jul 2 14:17:21 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <561355.21347.qm@web32105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have to agree.It is a art that you try to improve every time you make a new batch.After you perfect one wine the next time you will incounter an new challenge.If you where not willing to try something different they would all be the same. Its the same with great painters they make their works a little different each time or the same to bring out their qualities. ----- Original Message ---- From: Paul Bulas To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 2:06:05 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? It might be a useful idea to consider modelling our laws on those used in more "progressive" jurisdictions where wine is understood as a culinary accompaniment (and possibly an artform) and not simply in dry terms, as an "intoxicant".? The overall regulatory climate seems to be predicated on curbing the social ills of alcohol abuse (real as they are) rather than promoting artisanal wines as something that has cultural value.? And it's not just wine - local agriculture in general should be promoted more.? Doing so will of course present challenges, but would likely steer things away from that dry commodified mentality into something more holistic.? Such are my 2?. ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 1:05:36 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? There are AGCO laws which govern the sale and production of alcohol in general. Ryan ? ? ? __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail.? Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/95f8201e/attachment.html From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Wed Jul 2 14:20:23 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:20:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <813804.472.qm@web32102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I know what I saw an that is as far as I can go.Although they made our Katelin into a sparking wine. ----- Original Message ---- From: Neil To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 2:13:17 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Check their website ocalawinery.com, They do not have a sparkling wine rater three juices. ? ________________________________ From:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of melissa lounsbury Sent: July 2, 2008 12:44 To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario 's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? ? I know they had that to, but it was a sparking wine.At the time Is should have bought it an brought it home. The price was 18.00 per bottle. ? ? ----- Original Message ---- From: Neil To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:36:27 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario 's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Ocalamakes sparkling juice too. This is likely what you saw. It is in a 750 ml bottle with cage. ? Neil ? ________________________________ From:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of melissa lounsbury Sent: July 2, 2008 12:12 To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario 's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? ? I have no idea.The people where not from Ocala because I asked if they where some of the family. ? ? ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:03:09 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario 's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? How did Ocala have their wine for sale at St Jacob's?? Not legal is it? Ryan On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 11:48 AM, melissa lounsbury wrote: > It would be nice to sell wine at the farmers market.We where at the one in > St Jacobs an Ocalo had their wine for sale there. We sold a quanity of our > vines this year to be made into juice an to be sold at the welland an > Niagara farmers market. Maurice > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ryan > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:06:22 AM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario 's drinking culture: A big part of the > battle? > > This speaks to a bigger question, I think; while I like wine from > diverse regions and especially from close to home, I do think there is > probably a hard economic limit on the feasibility of wine production > "everywhere."? I think you touch on this, but it may be that beyond > the problems of the LCBO monopoly and regulatory problems in Ontario > there just isn't much of a market for wine that may be produced if > those regulations were to be loosened. > > That said, I just wish it was possible to produce and market > small-scale wine in Ontario just like any other food product -- at > farmer's markets, etc.? I would love to have a couple acres of grapes > and make wine part-time, and be able to sell it to friends, at market, > etc. > > Ryan > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Paul Bulas wrote: >> Lately I've been thinking that some of the obstacles to getting a true >> artisanal wine culture started across Ontario might stem from the overall >> views toward alcohol - in addition to the regulatory obstacles we >> discussed >> last week (e.g. 5-acre minimum, etc.).? We now have grape varieties that >> work across much of Central Ontario - so the viticultural difficulties are >> being fast addressed.? But what about the cultural aspects in general? >> Would an overall liberalization of views about public alcohol consumption >> help a fledgling artisanal wine industry? >> >> Each country has its unique history, but I can't help thinking that we in >> Ontario - and perhaps many more jurisdictions in North America - would do >> well to re-shape policies concerning public alcohol consumption along the >> lines of those seen in much of Europe .? I can't underestimate how >> necessary >> it is to bring quality artisanal wine and beer into the mainstream by >> emphasizing that these are culinary products; "art of the land", if you >> will.? Without a change in overal mentality, I think there will continue >> to >> be an uphill battle because artisanal wines will just be seen as a >> "special >> occasion" thing; a knick-knack; something you get for someone on their >> birthday or anniversary but nothing you'd ever dream of getting even just >> for yourself to have with supper. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> >> ________________________________ >> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! >> Answers. >> _______________________________________________ >> Growwine mailing list >> Growwine at littlefatwino.com >> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/770a7bb9/attachment.html From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Wed Jul 2 14:21:38 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <688618.24405.qm@web32105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What happened to the congregation? ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 2:15:04 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Probably you're preaching to the choir. On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Paul Bulas wrote: > It might be a useful idea to consider modelling our laws on those used in more "progressive" jurisdictions where wine is understood as a culinary accompaniment (and possibly an artform) and not simply in dry terms, as an "intoxicant".? The overall regulatory climate seems to be predicated on curbing the social ills of alcohol abuse (real as they are) rather than promoting artisanal wines as something that has cultural value.? And it's not just wine - local agriculture in general should be promoted more.? Doing so will of course present challenges, but would likely steer things away from that dry commodified mentality into something more holistic.? Such are my 2?. > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ryan > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 1:05:36 PM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? > > There are AGCO laws which govern the sale and production of alcohol in general. > > Ryan > > >? ? ? __________________________________________________________________ > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail.? Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/01a15569/attachment-0001.html From pabls at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 14:28:54 2008 From: pabls at yahoo.com (Paul Bulas) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:28:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <385319.39229.qm@web56815.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I like the way you put that Maurice.? It's not to say, of course, that there isn't a place for mass-produced goods in society ... but at present, the climate is just not as conducive as it could be for artisanal wines and ciders to flourish.? And that's another potential area: artisanal hard ciders.? That could open up new possibilities for agriculture/agri-tourism across much of Ontario, even up north.? It would be great to be able to take a drive in the country, buy some locally produced artisanal cheese and cider all at the same place, for example!? But there is no artisanal cider scene to speak of at present.? Anyone try the apple pop at the LCBO?? Oy! ----- Original Message ---- From: melissa lounsbury To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 2:17:21 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? I have to agree.It is a art that you try to improve every time you make a new batch.After you perfect one wine the next time you will incounter an new challenge.If you where not willing to try something different they would all be the same. Its the same with great painters they make their works a little different each time or the same to bring out their qualities. __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Wed Jul 2 14:36:43 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <955780.716.qm@web32108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I think the same way you do,we by cheese down a Jordan an the milk comes from a special herd owned by the comforts. Its nothing nicer to get something that you know right where its coming from.I see from the fruit grower that the government is spending four million to buy local from local growers. ----- Original Message ---- From: Paul Bulas To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 2:28:54 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? I like the way you put that Maurice.? It's not to say, of course, that there isn't a place for mass-produced goods in society ... but at present, the climate is just not as conducive as it could be for artisanal wines and ciders to flourish.? And that's another potential area: artisanal hard ciders.? That could open up new possibilities for agriculture/agri-tourism across much of Ontario, even up north.? It would be great to be able to take a drive in the country, buy some locally produced artisanal cheese and cider all at the same place, for example!? But there is no artisanal cider scene to speak of at present.? Anyone try the apple pop at the LCBO?? Oy! ----- Original Message ---- From: melissa lounsbury To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 2:17:21 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? I have to agree.It is a art that you try to improve every time you make a new batch.After you perfect one wine the next time you will incounter an new challenge.If you where not willing to try something different they would all be the same. Its the same with great painters they make their works a little different each time or the same to bring out their qualities. ? ? ? __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/90f7437f/attachment.html From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca Wed Jul 2 17:44:25 2008 From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:44:25 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? References: <385319.39229.qm@web56815.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00da01c8dc8c$daf683e0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> While not a cider expert, recently I've begun reviewing local ciders (incl. Quebec) and have been very impressed at the cleanliness and flavours. My single favourite has been a sparkling apple / mead by Applewood, wonderful stuff, kinda tastes a little like a honeyed Asti, exceptionally dangerous stuff near me on a summer day. http://littlefatwino.com/apple2007macmeade.html and there are many more, getting enough support at the farmgate. Can you imagine if they were given gov't support? Lardy Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Bulas" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? I like the way you put that Maurice. It's not to say, of course, that there isn't a place for mass-produced goods in society ... but at present, the climate is just not as conducive as it could be for artisanal wines and ciders to flourish. And that's another potential area: artisanal hard ciders. That could open up new possibilities for agriculture/agri-tourism across much of Ontario, even up north. It would be great to be able to take a drive in the country, buy some locally produced artisanal cheese and cider all at the same place, for example! But there is no artisanal cider scene to speak of at present. Anyone try the apple pop at the LCBO? Oy! ----- Original Message ---- From: melissa lounsbury To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 2:17:21 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? I have to agree.It is a art that you try to improve every time you make a new batch.After you perfect one wine the next time you will incounter an new challenge.If you where not willing to try something different they would all be the same. Its the same with great painters they make their works a little different each time or the same to bring out their qualities. __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca Wed Jul 2 19:03:46 2008 From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 19:03:46 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but Message-ID: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Does anyone know of a Canadian supplier who can access the European size crown caps (the 29 mm size, not the more usual 26 mm we see here in Canada on beer bottles and sparkling wine). Also, does anyone know where a capper or adaptor could be found to use these caps? I think that keeping 1-3 year wines in such containers (assuming you can locate the right bottles) would be a very wallet -and -environment friendly way to bottle wines. Think of that riesling or gewurz, vidal or prairie star that you will drink over the next three years. Why not a bottle cap? Lardy Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/c14c7dcf/attachment.html From cgchilds at ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jul 2 19:26:38 2008 From: cgchilds at ns.sympatico.ca (Kit & Gill Childs) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:26:38 -0300 Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? In-Reply-To: <701245.2659.qm@web32107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <701245.2659.qm@web32107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <486C0EAE.6020006@ns.sympatico.ca> Would "vine juice" be a tad woody?!! Kit Childs, Annapolis valley melissa lounsbury wrote: > It would be nice to sell wine at the farmers market.We where at the > one in St Jacobs an Ocalo had their wine for sale there. We sold a > quanity of our vines this year to be made into juice an to be sold at > the welland an Niagara farmers market. Maurice > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ryan > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:06:22 AM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the > battle? > > This speaks to a bigger question, I think; while I like wine from > diverse regions and especially from close to home, I do think there is > probably a hard economic limit on the feasibility of wine production > "everywhere." I think you touch on this, but it may be that beyond > the problems of the LCBO monopoly and regulatory problems in Ontario > there just isn't much of a market for wine that may be produced if > those regulations were to be loosened. > > That said, I just wish it was possible to produce and market > small-scale wine in Ontario just like any other food product -- at > farmer's markets, etc. I would love to have a couple acres of grapes > and make wine part-time, and be able to sell it to friends, at market, > etc. > > Ryan > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Paul Bulas > wrote: > > Lately I've been thinking that some of the obstacles to getting a true > > artisanal wine culture started across Ontario might stem from the > overall > > views toward alcohol - in addition to the regulatory obstacles we > discussed > > last week (e.g. 5-acre minimum, etc.). We now have grape varieties that > > work across much of Central Ontario - so the viticultural > difficulties are > > being fast addressed. But what about the cultural aspects in general? > > Would an overall liberalization of views about public alcohol > consumption > > help a fledgling artisanal wine industry? > > > > Each country has its unique history, but I can't help thinking that > we in > > Ontario - and perhaps many more jurisdictions in North America - > would do > > well to re-shape policies concerning public alcohol consumption > along the > > lines of those seen in much of Europe. I can't underestimate how > necessary > > it is to bring quality artisanal wine and beer into the mainstream by > > emphasizing that these are culinary products; "art of the land", if you > > will. Without a change in overal mentality, I think there will > continue to > > be an uphill battle because artisanal wines will just be seen as a > "special > > occasion" thing; a knick-knack; something you get for someone on their > > birthday or anniversary but nothing you'd ever dream of getting even > just > > for yourself to have with supper. > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to > Yahoo! > > Answers. > > _______________________________________________ > > Growwine mailing list > > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/43a6a447/attachment.html From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Wed Jul 2 19:51:34 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 16:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Message-ID: <306979.44268.qm@web32101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry about that Gill I ment that the grapes from the vines would be made into juice. Or do we have one of THOSE in the crowd? ----- Original Message ---- From: Kit & Gill Childs To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:26:38 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? Would "vine juice" be a tad woody?!! Kit Childs, Annapolis valley melissa lounsbury wrote: It would be nice to sell wine at the farmers market.We where at the one in St Jacobs an Ocalo had their wine for sale there. We sold a quanity of our vines this year to be made into juice an to be?sold at the welland an Niagara farmers market. Maurice? ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:06:22 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? This speaks to a bigger question, I think; while I like wine from diverse regions and especially from close to home, I do think there is probably a hard economic limit on the feasibility of wine production "everywhere."? I think you touch on this, but it may be that beyond the problems of the LCBO monopoly and regulatory problems in Ontario there just isn't much of a market for wine that may be produced if those regulations were to be loosened. That said, I just wish it was possible to produce and market small-scale wine in Ontario just like any other food product -- at farmer's markets, etc.? I would love to have a couple acres of grapes and make wine part-time, and be able to sell it to friends, at market, etc. Ryan On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Paul Bulas wrote: > Lately I've been thinking that some of the obstacles to getting a true > artisanal wine culture started across Ontario might stem from the overall > views toward alcohol - in addition to the regulatory obstacles we discussed > last week (e.g. 5-acre minimum, etc.).? We now have grape varieties that > work across much of Central Ontario - so the viticultural difficulties are > being fast addressed.? But what about the cultural aspects in general? > Would an overall liberalization of views about public alcohol consumption > help a fledgling artisanal wine industry? > > Each country has its unique history, but I can't help thinking that we in > Ontario - and perhaps many more jurisdictions in North America - would do > well to re-shape policies concerning public alcohol consumption along the > lines of those seen in much of Europe.? I can't underestimate how necessary > it is to bring quality artisanal wine and beer into the mainstream by > emphasizing that these are culinary products; "art of the land", if you > will.? Without a change in overal mentality, I think there will continue to > be an uphill battle because artisanal wines will just be seen as a "special > occasion" thing; a knick-knack; something you get for someone on their > birthday or anniversary but nothing you'd ever dream of getting even just > for yourself to have with supper. > > Any thoughts? > > > ________________________________ > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! > Answers. > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/0f7f2790/attachment.html From terry.rayner at sympatico.ca Wed Jul 2 20:34:30 2008 From: terry.rayner at sympatico.ca (Terry Rayner) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:34:30 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but References: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Message-ID: Try Graham, at A.O. Wilson, I think he might have had something along those lines. fyi Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Paterson To: Growwine List Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:03 PM Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but Does anyone know of a Canadian supplier who can access the European size crown caps (the 29 mm size, not the more usual 26 mm we see here in Canada on beer bottles and sparkling wine). Also, does anyone know where a capper or adaptor could be found to use these caps? I think that keeping 1-3 year wines in such containers (assuming you can locate the right bottles) would be a very wallet -and -environment friendly way to bottle wines. Think of that riesling or gewurz, vidal or prairie star that you will drink over the next three years. Why not a bottle cap? Lardy Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/41697828/attachment.html From paul at vivezza.com Wed Jul 2 21:14:12 2008 From: paul at vivezza.com (paul@vivezza.com) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but In-Reply-To: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> References: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Message-ID: <50408.66.183.141.181.1215047652.squirrel@vivezza.com> I've been doing that for years, it's a great way to keep wine for up to about 5-7 years. I use the 26 mm crown caps mostly by Swentec (sp?) in Quebec should be able to help out with the 29 mm size. Most of the suppliers of crown cap machines can provide a 29 mm bell for the capper. Keep in mind that all the usual reductive issues can arise with the crown cap, just as they can with screw caps. Paul > Does anyone know of a Canadian supplier who can access the European size > crown caps (the 29 mm size, not the more usual 26 mm we see here in Canada > on beer bottles and sparkling wine). Also, does anyone know where a > capper or adaptor could be found to use these caps? > > I think that keeping 1-3 year wines in such containers (assuming you can > locate the right bottles) would be a very wallet -and -environment > friendly way to bottle wines. Think of that riesling or gewurz, vidal or > prairie star that you will drink over the next three years. Why not a > bottle cap? > > > Lardy > > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc > (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) > > http://www.littlefatwino.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > From george.sansom at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 21:31:00 2008 From: george.sansom at gmail.com (George Sansom) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:31:00 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the battle? In-Reply-To: <380960.58229.qm@web32107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <380960.58229.qm@web32107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5c2c9c910807021831q5514f9d8r610dcb120738efa7@mail.gmail.com> Perhaps some wineries could host a Farmers Market every Saturday morning. Lots of parking, washrooms, good drinking water, time for tours and if someone happens to buy a few bottles of wine from the establishment all the better! Shouldn't be any laws against that....??? On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:01 PM, melissa lounsbury wrote: > Also Paul is there a law out there that says you can not sell wine at the > farmers market.Its a product of the farm. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Paul Bulas > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:23:30 PM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the > battle? > > You know, Maurice, that is just it: People aren't looking for wine at > farmer's markets, most likely because wine has never been associated with > them in recent memory at least. But if it were - and not just wine, but > real, artisanal hard cider and beer for that matter - people would naturally > make the association. Jams, cookies and pies are fine, but quality > artisanal alcoholic beverages aren't ... I think we need to move past the > prohibitionist hangover as a society. > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: melissa lounsbury > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:17:03 PM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Ontario's drinking culture: A big part of the > battle? > > > There seems to be all avenues to be looked into, like the farmers market > because a lot of the people who come there are not looking for wine.A new > line will lead them to trying some. Maurice. > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the > boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to > New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > From hydahlia at shaw.ca Wed Jul 2 22:25:45 2008 From: hydahlia at shaw.ca (Wayne Holland) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 19:25:45 -0700 Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but In-Reply-To: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> References: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Message-ID: <45A3547A-D19A-4324-8937-15425E8270B7@shaw.ca> I've been using bottle caps for 20 years. A bit of an uphill climb to begin when I brought out a crown capped bottle, but the contents proved the concept. In 1986 a friend and I made a very good barrel of Zinfandel from California grapes and we decided to do the definitive test. A dozen under cork, a dozen crown capped in 750 mL Andres sparkling wine bottles (regular cap). We have opened them blind over the years with friends and ALWAYS got the opinion that the crown cap tasted 'better'. Luck held and no corks failed. The last 2 went 4 years ago. Steinlager beer is a great bottle. I do a lot into Corona bottles. No label to soak off, easy to see if clean, nice size for dinner. cheers, wayne On 2-Jul-08, at 4:03 PM, Larry Paterson wrote: > Does anyone know of a Canadian supplier who can access the European > size crown caps (the 29 mm size, not the more usual 26 mm we see > here in Canada on beer bottles and sparkling wine). Also, does > anyone know where a capper or adaptor could be found to use these > caps? > > I think that keeping 1-3 year wines in such containers (assuming > you can locate the right bottles) would be a very wallet -and - > environment friendly way to bottle wines. Think of that riesling > or gewurz, vidal or prairie star that you will drink over the next > three years. Why not a bottle cap? > > > Lardy > > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc > (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) > > http://www.littlefatwino.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080702/70ca82fa/attachment.html From vspeer at mchsi.com Thu Jul 3 05:01:35 2008 From: vspeer at mchsi.com (Vernon Speer) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 04:01:35 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but In-Reply-To: <45A3547A-D19A-4324-8937-15425E8270B7@shaw.ca> References: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> <45A3547A-D19A-4324-8937-15425E8270B7@shaw.ca> Message-ID: Wayne...just an idea I've been experimenting (read putzing around) with champagning my fruit wines. If you've got the wine and using Andre's bottles with crown caps, try this. Add a couple of ounces of simple sugar to the wine, now the sneaky part, put your yeast in a dialysis membrane tube, I use 10mm, 14,000 MWCO, sealed at both ends, and drop in the bottle. The yeast eats the sugar, but the residue stays in the tube, a little osmosis thing...this eliminates the degorging!!! Results have been very encouraging...if for no other reason than my degorging efforts to clear the plug have resulted in a lot of excitement and an unsightly ceiling in the kitchen. Dialysis membrane tubes should be available from any medical supply house. On Jul 2, 2008, at 9:25 PM, Wayne Holland wrote: I've been using bottle caps for 20 years. A bit of an uphill climb to begin when I brought out a crown capped bottle, but the contents proved the concept. ?In 1986 a friend and I made a very good barrel of Zinfandel from California grapes and we decided to do the?definitive?test. A dozen under cork, a dozen crown capped in 750 mL Andres sparkling wine bottles (regular cap). We have opened them blind over the years with friends and ALWAYS got the opinion that the crown cap tasted 'better'. Luck held and no corks failed. The last 2 went 4 years ago. Steinlager beer is a great bottle. I do a lot into Corona bottles. No?label?to soak off, easy to see if clean, nice size for dinner. cheers, wayne On 2-Jul-08, at 4:03 PM, Larry Paterson wrote: > Does anyone know of a Canadian supplier who can access the European > size crown caps (the 29 mm size, not the more usual 26 mm we see here > in Canada on beer bottles and sparkling wine).? Also, does anyone know > where a capper or adaptor?could be found to use these caps? > ? > I think that keeping 1-3 year wines in such containers (assuming you > can locate the right bottles) would be a very wallet -and -environment > friendly way to bottle wines.? Think of that riesling or gewurz, vidal > or prairie star that you will drink over the next three years.? Why > not a bottle cap? > ? > ? > Lardy > ? > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc > (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) > ? > http://www.littlefatwino.com/ > ? > ? > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From gram at flarenet.com Thu Jul 3 06:59:53 2008 From: gram at flarenet.com (Margaret Marshall) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 06:59:53 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but References: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Message-ID: <001b01c8dcfb$efd3b430$6d24cdd1@ownerfcf86o9a8> HI Larry! We have purchased some equipment from St Pats of Texas because their prices are very competitive, even with shipping. They have a capper called a stelvin capper. I am not sure if that is what you are looking for. Their email is www.stpats @bga.com. Ciao, margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Paterson To: Growwine List Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:03 PM Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but Does anyone know of a Canadian supplier who can access the European size crown caps (the 29 mm size, not the more usual 26 mm we see here in Canada on beer bottles and sparkling wine). Also, does anyone know where a capper or adaptor could be found to use these caps? I think that keeping 1-3 year wines in such containers (assuming you can locate the right bottles) would be a very wallet -and -environment friendly way to bottle wines. Think of that riesling or gewurz, vidal or prairie star that you will drink over the next three years. Why not a bottle cap? Lardy Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080703/74929dce/attachment.html From vnefv at brant.net Thu Jul 3 07:37:18 2008 From: vnefv at brant.net (Phil Ryan) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 07:37:18 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but References: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> <001b01c8dcfb$efd3b430$6d24cdd1@ownerfcf86o9a8> Message-ID: <001701c8dd01$2a46fbe0$6824cdd1@mycomputer> Hi Margaret; Can you tell us about payment and shipping/customs for dealing with St. Pats? Phil Ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: Margaret Marshall To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but HI Larry! We have purchased some equipment from St Pats of Texas because their prices are very competitive, even with shipping. They have a capper called a stelvin capper. I am not sure if that is what you are looking for. Their email is www.stpats @bga.com. Ciao, margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Paterson To: Growwine List Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:03 PM Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but Does anyone know of a Canadian supplier who can access the European size crown caps (the 29 mm size, not the more usual 26 mm we see here in Canada on beer bottles and sparkling wine). Also, does anyone know where a capper or adaptor could be found to use these caps? I think that keeping 1-3 year wines in such containers (assuming you can locate the right bottles) would be a very wallet -and -environment friendly way to bottle wines. Think of that riesling or gewurz, vidal or prairie star that you will drink over the next three years. Why not a bottle cap? Lardy Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.4/1530 - Release Date: 7/2/2008 8:05 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080703/d196d3db/attachment.html From ryan.daum at gmail.com Thu Jul 3 09:19:41 2008 From: ryan.daum at gmail.com (Ryan) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:19:41 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but In-Reply-To: References: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> <45A3547A-D19A-4324-8937-15425E8270B7@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <5e5a8c000807030619h3bfacfd8y75ba9347385f283@mail.gmail.com> Very Interesting! -- is it possible that one could do the entire fermentation of a sweet or off-dry white with the yeast culture living inside the dialysis tubing, thus allowing one to remove the tubing and end fermentation before it completes (without having to stop it with sulfur, etc.)? Sounds similar to the encapsulated yeast idea. Ryan On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 5:01 AM, Vernon Speer wrote: > Wayne...just an idea > > I've been experimenting (read putzing around) with champagning my fruit > wines. If you've got the wine and using Andre's bottles with crown > caps, try this. > Add a couple of ounces of simple sugar to the wine, now the sneaky > part, put your yeast in a dialysis membrane tube, I use 10mm, 14,000 > MWCO, sealed at both ends, and drop in the bottle. The yeast eats the > sugar, but the residue stays in the tube, a little osmosis thing...this > eliminates the degorging!!! Results have been very encouraging...if for > no other reason than my degorging efforts to clear the plug have > resulted in a lot of excitement and an unsightly ceiling in the > kitchen. Dialysis membrane tubes should be available from any medical > supply house. > > On Jul 2, 2008, at 9:25 PM, Wayne Holland wrote: > > I've been using bottle caps for 20 years. A bit of an uphill climb to > begin when I brought out a crown capped bottle, but the contents proved > the concept. In 1986 a friend and I made a very good barrel of > Zinfandel from California grapes and we decided to do > the definitive test. A dozen under cork, a dozen crown capped in 750 mL > Andres sparkling wine bottles (regular cap). We have opened them blind > over the years with friends and ALWAYS got the opinion that the crown > cap tasted 'better'. Luck held and no corks failed. The last 2 went 4 > years ago. Steinlager beer is a great bottle. I do a lot into Corona > bottles. No label to soak off, easy to see if clean, nice size for > dinner. > > cheers, wayne > On 2-Jul-08, at 4:03 PM, Larry Paterson wrote: > >> Does anyone know of a Canadian supplier who can access the European >> size crown caps (the 29 mm size, not the more usual 26 mm we see here >> in Canada on beer bottles and sparkling wine). Also, does anyone know >> where a capper or adaptor could be found to use these caps? >> >> I think that keeping 1-3 year wines in such containers (assuming you >> can locate the right bottles) would be a very wallet -and -environment >> friendly way to bottle wines. Think of that riesling or gewurz, vidal >> or prairie star that you will drink over the next three years. Why >> not a bottle cap? >> >> >> Lardy >> >> Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc >> (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) >> >> http://www.littlefatwino.com/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Growwine mailing list >> Growwine at littlefatwino.com >> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > From neyvatter at hurontel.on.ca Thu Jul 3 09:33:51 2008 From: neyvatter at hurontel.on.ca (Ron Neyvatte) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:33:51 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but In-Reply-To: References: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> <45A3547A-D19A-4324-8937-15425E8270B7@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <486CD53F.2080300@hurontel.on.ca> Vernon Speer wrote: >Wayne...just an idea > >I've been experimenting (read putzing around) with champagning my fruit >wines. >Add a couple of ounces of simple sugar to the wine, now the sneaky > > What kind of bomb are you building?? From vspeer at mchsi.com Thu Jul 3 09:34:48 2008 From: vspeer at mchsi.com (Vernon Speer) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:34:48 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but In-Reply-To: <5e5a8c000807030619h3bfacfd8y75ba9347385f283@mail.gmail.com> References: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> <45A3547A-D19A-4324-8937-15425E8270B7@shaw.ca> <5e5a8c000807030619h3bfacfd8y75ba9347385f283@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Ryan, Interesting and I don't see why not! The tube runs $20 for 10', a little pricey for still wine, but if it's not a price thing it would probably work. What am I saying??? If it were a price thing, we'd all be down at the store buying cheap wantabe Canadian wine...instead, we make major investments in our hobby and for our pleasure. Go for it and keep us posted. On Jul 3, 2008, at 8:19 AM, Ryan wrote: Very Interesting! -- is it possible that one could do the entire fermentation of a sweet or off-dry white with the yeast culture living inside the dialysis tubing, thus allowing one to remove the tubing and end fermentation before it completes (without having to stop it with sulfur, etc.)? Sounds similar to the encapsulated yeast idea. Ryan On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 5:01 AM, Vernon Speer wrote: > Wayne...just an idea > > I've been experimenting (read putzing around) with champagning my > fruit > wines. If you've got the wine and using Andre's bottles with crown > caps, try this. > Add a couple of ounces of simple sugar to the wine, now the sneaky > part, put your yeast in a dialysis membrane tube, I use 10mm, 14,000 > MWCO, sealed at both ends, and drop in the bottle. The yeast eats the > sugar, but the residue stays in the tube, a little osmosis > thing...this > eliminates the degorging!!! Results have been very encouraging...if > for > no other reason than my degorging efforts to clear the plug have > resulted in a lot of excitement and an unsightly ceiling in the > kitchen. Dialysis membrane tubes should be available from any medical > supply house. > > On Jul 2, 2008, at 9:25 PM, Wayne Holland wrote: > > I've been using bottle caps for 20 years. A bit of an uphill climb to > begin when I brought out a crown capped bottle, but the contents > proved > the concept. In 1986 a friend and I made a very good barrel of > Zinfandel from California grapes and we decided to do > the definitive test. A dozen under cork, a dozen crown capped in > 750 mL > Andres sparkling wine bottles (regular cap). We have opened them blind > over the years with friends and ALWAYS got the opinion that the crown > cap tasted 'better'. Luck held and no corks failed. The last 2 went 4 > years ago. Steinlager beer is a great bottle. I do a lot into Corona > bottles. No label to soak off, easy to see if clean, nice size for > dinner. > > cheers, wayne > On 2-Jul-08, at 4:03 PM, Larry Paterson wrote: > >> Does anyone know of a Canadian supplier who can access the European >> size crown caps (the 29 mm size, not the more usual 26 mm we see here >> in Canada on beer bottles and sparkling wine). Also, does anyone >> know >> where a capper or adaptor could be found to use these caps? >> >> I think that keeping 1-3 year wines in such containers (assuming you >> can locate the right bottles) would be a very wallet -and - >> environment >> friendly way to bottle wines. Think of that riesling or gewurz, >> vidal >> or prairie star that you will drink over the next three years. Why >> not a bottle cap? >> >> >> Lardy >> >> Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc >> (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) >> >> http://www.littlefatwino.com/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Growwine mailing list >> Growwine at littlefatwino.com >> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From vspeer at mchsi.com Thu Jul 3 10:45:06 2008 From: vspeer at mchsi.com (Vernon Speer) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:45:06 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but In-Reply-To: <486CD53F.2080300@hurontel.on.ca> References: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> <45A3547A-D19A-4324-8937-15425E8270B7@shaw.ca> <486CD53F.2080300@hurontel.on.ca> Message-ID: Ahh, good question Ron, Andr? bottles are champagne glass...by Gallo...and hold the pressure. I have yet to lose one, although I admit to storing them in closed plastic buckets during secondary. I currently have dry Concord, Strawberry and Cranberry...which I suspect would be Brut, if I may take the liberty. The sparkle gives the wine a nice finish, very clean on the palate, and lots and lots of nose. On Jul 3, 2008, at 8:33 AM, Ron Neyvatte wrote: Vernon Speer wrote: > Wayne...just an idea > > I've been experimenting (read putzing around) with champagning my > fruit > wines. > Add a couple of ounces of simple sugar to the wine, now the sneaky > > What kind of bomb are you building?? _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From hydahlia at shaw.ca Thu Jul 3 10:45:16 2008 From: hydahlia at shaw.ca (Wayne Holland) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 07:45:16 -0700 Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but In-Reply-To: References: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> <45A3547A-D19A-4324-8937-15425E8270B7@shaw.ca> Message-ID: Vernon, Interesting. How do you seal it? Do you degorge the tube or just leave it in? wayne On 3-Jul-08, at 2:01 AM, Vernon Speer wrote: > Wayne...just an idea > > I've been experimenting (read putzing around) with champagning my > fruit > wines. If you've got the wine and using Andre's bottles with crown > caps, try this. > Add a couple of ounces of simple sugar to the wine, now the sneaky > part, put your yeast in a dialysis membrane tube, I use 10mm, 14,000 > MWCO, sealed at both ends, and drop in the bottle. The yeast eats the > sugar, but the residue stays in the tube, a little osmosis > thing...this > eliminates the degorging!!! Results have been very encouraging...if > for > no other reason than my degorging efforts to clear the plug have > resulted in a lot of excitement and an unsightly ceiling in the > kitchen. Dialysis membrane tubes should be available from any medical > supply house. From vspeer at mchsi.com Thu Jul 3 11:21:53 2008 From: vspeer at mchsi.com (Vernon Speer) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:21:53 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but In-Reply-To: References: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> <45A3547A-D19A-4324-8937-15425E8270B7@shaw.ca> Message-ID: Wayne, I use the standard crown closure. I don't degorge...initially I left the tube in, but now tie in a little #8 thread off my fly tying desk to pull the tube out after I open the bottle...just an ascetics thing. I've only been experimenting with this for 3 years so this is still a work in progress. Any suggestions, sympathy or other will be much appreciated. On Jul 3, 2008, at 9:45 AM, Wayne Holland wrote: Vernon, Interesting. How do you seal it? Do you degorge the tube or just leave it in? wayne On 3-Jul-08, at 2:01 AM, Vernon Speer wrote: > Wayne...just an idea > > I've been experimenting (read putzing around) with champagning my > fruit > wines. If you've got the wine and using Andre's bottles with crown > caps, try this. > Add a couple of ounces of simple sugar to the wine, now the sneaky > part, put your yeast in a dialysis membrane tube, I use 10mm, 14,000 > MWCO, sealed at both ends, and drop in the bottle. The yeast eats the > sugar, but the residue stays in the tube, a little osmosis > thing...this > eliminates the degorging!!! Results have been very encouraging...if > for > no other reason than my degorging efforts to clear the plug have > resulted in a lot of excitement and an unsightly ceiling in the > kitchen. Dialysis membrane tubes should be available from any medical > supply house. _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From hydahlia at shaw.ca Thu Jul 3 12:18:11 2008 From: hydahlia at shaw.ca (Wayne Holland) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:18:11 -0700 Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but In-Reply-To: References: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> <45A3547A-D19A-4324-8937-15425E8270B7@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <8A7F3D44-FCA8-4BE0-AD18-5464DA22E5D0@shaw.ca> and do you tie off the dialysis tubing with thread as well? fold it? crimp it? wayne On 3-Jul-08, at 8:21 AM, Vernon Speer wrote: > I use the standard crown closure. I don't degorge...initially I left > the tube in, but now tie in a little #8 thread off my fly tying desk > to pull the tube out after I open the bottle...just an ascetics > thing. I've only been experimenting with this for 3 years so this is > still a work in progress. Any suggestions, sympathy or other will be > much appreciated. From vspeer at mchsi.com Thu Jul 3 13:06:01 2008 From: vspeer at mchsi.com (Vernon Speer) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:06:01 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but In-Reply-To: <8A7F3D44-FCA8-4BE0-AD18-5464DA22E5D0@shaw.ca> References: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> <45A3547A-D19A-4324-8937-15425E8270B7@shaw.ca> <8A7F3D44-FCA8-4BE0-AD18-5464DA22E5D0@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <6846DCB0-710C-4E1C-89F4-B8BA99A153CC@mchsi.com> Wayne, I just tie it off, I don't think it matters...at first I put an overhand knot in both ends...but that wasted a lot of expensive tubing...now I just loop thread around it three or four times and put a surgeons knot in...takes about 3 or 4 seconds and I've yet to have one fail. I used to degorge...fill, sugar, yeast, crown cap, lay the bottle down for a year, then put point down and shake when I walked by a couple of times a day, if that...just too time consuming...chill the wine to about 30, freeze the neck in a brine solution, pop the crown, blow the plug, re-crown. This seems to be the answer to my problem...being lazy...and still liking a good bottle of wine...and always doing it a little different...sometimes for the better....sometimes for the worse, I've made a lot of marinate in these trials. It's still in the works stage, but I think it will prove out. On Jul 3, 2008, at 11:18 AM, Wayne Holland wrote: and do you tie off the dialysis tubing with thread as well? fold it? crimp it? wayne On 3-Jul-08, at 8:21 AM, Vernon Speer wrote: > I use the standard crown closure. I don't degorge...initially I left > the tube in, but now tie in a little #8 thread off my fly tying desk > to pull the tube out after I open the bottle...just an ascetics > thing. I've only been experimenting with this for 3 years so this is > still a work in progress. Any suggestions, sympathy or other will be > much appreciated. _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From hydahlia at shaw.ca Thu Jul 3 14:32:58 2008 From: hydahlia at shaw.ca (Wayne Holland) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:32:58 -0700 Subject: [Growwine] Unusual topic, but In-Reply-To: <6846DCB0-710C-4E1C-89F4-B8BA99A153CC@mchsi.com> References: <00f901c8dc97$e5338370$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> <45A3547A-D19A-4324-8937-15425E8270B7@shaw.ca>