From aveo2000 at hotmail.com Sun Jun 1 09:01:39 2008 From: aveo2000 at hotmail.com (ASSOCIATION DES VITICULTEURS DE L'EST ONTARIEN) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 09:01:39 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] freeze In-Reply-To: <5C27639FDEA8CE4D8EC1F382903DE5FA03F67A23@s0-ott-x1.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> References: <.1211983902@magma.ca> <5C27639FDEA8CE4D8EC1F382903DE5FA03F67A23@s0-ott-x1.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> Message-ID: On the 28th of May I was sat outside in the vineyard at 4am with all my little fires ready to be lighted. The temperature went down to 0C at 5 am and strarted to climb all the suden with the lake effect and wind coming from the City of Ottawa. Nos dammages at all in Aylmer. But in Mont?bello it went down to -1C. I pruned these vines at the end of april and they are late in Montebello. The Frontenac are also having a second life regarding frost. So the dammades are not too bad. The Vandal Cliche resisted the -1C. That is all what they resist these stupid vines... The Sabrevois resisted also the -1C. Well I am sorry. No second millenium story Guys! So I will have enough wine for the Lusksville Growwiner. FUMEWEB: http://site.voila.fr/aveo/ http://site.voila.fr/aveo2/ Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 11:52:03 -0400From: RStJean at NRCan.gc.caTo: dbriden at magma.ca; growwine at littlefatwino.comSubject: Re: [Growwine] freeze In Cantley Quebec just north of Gatineau, it was -1C this morning and roofs were white along with some ground frost. I covered the grapes that I could and left the tarps because they are calling for a repeat overnight. Rob From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Doug BridenSent: May 28, 2008 10:12 AMTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comSubject: Re: [Growwine] freeze Larry, west end of Ottawa had reported some minor frost and about 3 degrees. I saw 5.6 this morning at 6:30 an no signs of frost in Luskville. The Weather Network shows an online stat for the Gatineau airport (North-East) of Ottawa hit -1 degree at 6 a.m. this morning. Did you folks up in Cantley see any frost ? Doug. On Wed 28/05/08 09:27 , "Larry Paterson" littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca sent: We had zero degrees for two hours this morning in Peterborough. did anyone get hit harder last night? Lardy Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080601/c098343b/attachment.html From fleurdelis at gwi.net Sun Jun 1 12:12:21 2008 From: fleurdelis at gwi.net (Michele Roberge) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 12:12:21 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] freeze In-Reply-To: References: <.1211983902@magma.ca> <5C27639FDEA8CE4D8EC1F382903DE5FA03F67A23@s0-ott-x1.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> Message-ID: <200806011612.m51GCLxw067131@podracer.gwi.net> Can you explain how to position fires to protect the vines, to someone who has never seen this done before? Thank you, Michele ASSOCIATION DES VITICULTEURS DE L'EST ONTARIEN writes: > > On the 28th of May I was sat outside in the vineyard at 4am with all my little fires ready to be lighted. The temperature went down to 0C at 5 am and strarted to climb all the suden with the lake effect and wind coming from the City of Ottawa. Nos dammages at all in Aylmer. But in Mont?bello it went down to -1C. I pruned these vines at the end of april and they are late in Montebello. The Frontenac are also having a second life regarding frost. So the dammades are not too bad. The Vandal Cliche resisted the -1C. That is all what they resist these stupid vines... The Sabrevois resisted also the -1C. Well I am sorry. No second millenium story Guys! So I will have enough wine for the Lusksville Growwiner. > FUMEWEB: http://site.voila.fr/aveo/ http://site.voila.fr/aveo2/ > > > Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 11:52:03 -0400From: RStJean at NRCan.gc.caTo: dbriden at magma.ca; growwine at littlefatwino.comSubject: Re: [Growwine] freeze > > > > > > > > > In Cantley Quebec just north of Gatineau, it was -1C this morning and roofs were white along with some ground frost. I covered the grapes that I could and left the tarps because they are calling for a repeat overnight. > > Rob > > > > > > From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Doug BridenSent: May 28, 2008 10:12 AMTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comSubject: Re: [Growwine] freeze > > Larry, west end of Ottawa had reported some minor frost and about 3 degrees. I saw 5.6 this morning at 6:30 an no signs of frost in Luskville. The Weather Network shows an online stat for the Gatineau airport (North-East) of Ottawa hit -1 degree at 6 a.m. this morning. Did you folks up in Cantley see any frost ? > Doug. On Wed 28/05/08 09:27 , "Larry Paterson" littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca sent: > > > We had zero degrees for two hours this morning in Peterborough. > > > > did anyone get hit harder last night? > > > > Lardy > > > > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) > > > > http://www.littlefatwino.com/ > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 From neil at coffinridge.ca Sun Jun 1 21:09:55 2008 From: neil at coffinridge.ca (Neil) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 21:09:55 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] freeze In-Reply-To: <200806011612.m51GCLxw067131@podracer.gwi.net> References: <.1211983902@magma.ca><5C27639FDEA8CE4D8EC1F382903DE5FA03F67A23@s0-ott-x1.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> <200806011612.m51GCLxw067131@podracer.gwi.net> Message-ID: <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F003EB3573@hosted4.myexchange.ad> We heard today that one can go through the vineyard with the air blast sprayer (empty) and this will move the air around enough. Neil -----Original Message----- From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Michele Roberge Sent: June 1, 2008 12:12 To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] freeze Can you explain how to position fires to protect the vines, to someone who has never seen this done before? Thank you, Michele ASSOCIATION DES VITICULTEURS DE L'EST ONTARIEN writes: > > On the 28th of May I was sat outside in the vineyard at 4am with all my little fires ready to be lighted. The temperature went down to 0C at 5 am and strarted to climb all the suden with the lake effect and wind coming from the City of Ottawa. Nos dammages at all in Aylmer. But in Mont?bello it went down to -1C. I pruned these vines at the end of april and they are late in Montebello. The Frontenac are also having a second life regarding frost. So the dammades are not too bad. The Vandal Cliche resisted the -1C. That is all what they resist these stupid vines... The Sabrevois resisted also the -1C. Well I am sorry. No second millenium story Guys! So I will have enough wine for the Lusksville Growwiner. > FUMEWEB: http://site.voila.fr/aveo/ http://site.voila.fr/aveo2/ > > > Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 11:52:03 -0400From: RStJean at NRCan.gc.caTo: dbriden at magma.ca; growwine at littlefatwino.comSubject: Re: [Growwine] freeze > > > > > > > > > In Cantley Quebec just north of Gatineau, it was -1C this morning and roofs were white along with some ground frost. I covered the grapes that I could and left the tarps because they are calling for a repeat overnight. > > Rob > > > > > > From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Doug BridenSent: May 28, 2008 10:12 AMTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comSubject: Re: [Growwine] freeze > > Larry, west end of Ottawa had reported some minor frost and about 3 degrees. I saw 5.6 this morning at 6:30 an no signs of frost in Luskville. The Weather Network shows an online stat for the Gatineau airport (North-East) of Ottawa hit -1 degree at 6 a.m. this morning. Did you folks up in Cantley see any frost ? > Doug. On Wed 28/05/08 09:27 , "Larry Paterson" littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca sent: > > > We had zero degrees for two hours this morning in Peterborough. > > > > did anyone get hit harder last night? > > > > Lardy > > > > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) > > > > http://www.littlefatwino.com/ > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From petersalonius at hotmail.com Mon Jun 2 01:39:20 2008 From: petersalonius at hotmail.com (peter salonius) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 02:39:20 -0300 Subject: [Growwine] Green House Blowdown In-Reply-To: References: <3416c6840805250925v1d804969i3b68d305a62ce3cc@mail.gmail.com> <483B4FF3.7050505@sympatico.ca> <3416c6840805280621w27f721acw661064988918f934@mail.gmail.com> <483DCCF4.5000301@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Robert Just one more reason to start cuttings in the garden in late May; all you need to get them rooted is some drip irrigation whenever the soil surface dries out >>>> until the end of August when they should begin to harden off with NO MORE supplimentary water. Peter Salonius =============================================================== From: redstone99 at hotmail.comTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Fri, 30 May 2008 06:56:14 -0300Subject: Re: [Growwine] My Grape List Central New Brunswick, 40 kms North of Fredicton. Zone 4a, but growing season here is so flip flop (Z3 to Z10). It can cold like alaska in AM and hot/dry like desert or hot and humid like rain forest during summer season. I basically have a headstart to the Earth's future weather conditions. Thats why I grow/breed so many different food plants, if they can survive here,they will survive almost anywhere. Just had 3 days of very high winds and frost this morning,damage unknown yet but it is discouraging. Tempory greenhouse destroyed by winds,so it leaves all cuttings/leafed-out plants exposed to frost. Alas,a bit depressed this morning. From: vitiferas at hotmail.comTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Thu, 29 May 2008 21:44:23 -0400Subject: Re: [Growwine] My Grape List Salut Robert, Where exactly are you located? Jean Houle Charlemagne Quebec Zone de rusticit? 4b-5a du Canada Canada plant hardiness zone 4b-5a Sud-ouest du Qu?bec / Southwest Qu?bec "Petit ou grand, un bon vin a la gueule de l'endroit o? il est n?, et les tripes du bonhomme qui l'a fait." Jacques Puisais "The best chance of success is crossing adaptive hybrids on other adaptive hybrids." Elmer Swenson From: redstone99 at hotmail.comTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Thu, 29 May 2008 18:16:31 -0300Subject: Re: [Growwine] My Grape List Dornfelder just acquired last fall from Peter. Grew one cutting in basement and much slower grower than Baco Noir,but a good size never the less. A rich sandy soil with a big pinch of bonemeal makes a difference. I head start my star vines early to get a good crop of green cuttings in july/aug or dormant cuttings in late fall. They sometimes the mother vine survives, but most don't overwinter well (unless its returned to growroom before hard cold hits and 8-12weeks of dormancy is completed). My wife thinks me crazy in a cute way, what more can I say? Growing is a lifetime of experiments. > Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 16:21:56 -0500> From: rwdbest at sympatico.ca> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com> Subject: Re: [Growwine] My Grape List> > robert valiquette wrote:> > *Here's my list Richard. **_Not in any order_*> > ...> That is very impressive. How is the Dornfelder doing?> > Regards,> Richard Best - The Frugal Oenophile> > "Use it up; wear it out; make it last"> And please don't leave your vehicle idling. > _______________________________________________> Growwine mailing list> Growwine at littlefatwino.com> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080602/059bab05/attachment.html From aveo2000 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 2 08:41:34 2008 From: aveo2000 at hotmail.com (ASSOCIATION DES VITICULTEURS DE L'EST ONTARIEN) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 08:41:34 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] freeze In-Reply-To: <200806011612.m51GCLxw067131@podracer.gwi.net> References: <.1211983902@magma.ca> <5C27639FDEA8CE4D8EC1F382903DE5FA03F67A23@s0-ott-x1.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> <200806011612.m51GCLxw067131@podracer.gwi.net> Message-ID: I now use wax fire logs that I buy at Canadian Tire or RenoDepot and place them every 20 feet. With wet straw to make enough smoke. In the past I was using real wood but I stoped. The reason is explained on my friend the Littlefatwino's web site.. FUME..WEB: http://site.voila.fr/aveo/ http://site.voila.fr/aveo2/> From: fleurdelis at gwi.net> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:12:21 -0400> Subject: Re: [Growwine] freeze> > Can you explain how to position fires to protect the vines, to someone who > has never seen this done before?> Thank you,> Michele > > ASSOCIATION DES VITICULTEURS DE L'EST ONTARIEN writes: > > > > > On the 28th of May I was sat outside in the vineyard at 4am with all my little fires ready to be lighted. The temperature went down to 0C at 5 am and strarted to climb all the suden with the lake effect and wind coming from the City of Ottawa. Nos dammages at all in Aylmer. But in Mont?bello it went down to -1C. I pruned these vines at the end of april and they are late in Montebello. The Frontenac are also having a second life regarding frost. So the dammades are not too bad. The Vandal Cliche resisted the -1C. That is all what they resist these stupid vines... The Sabrevois resisted also the -1C. Well I am sorry. No second millenium story Guys! So I will have enough wine for the Lusksville Growwiner.> > FUMEWEB: http://site.voila.fr/aveo/ http://site.voila.fr/aveo2/ > > > > > > Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 11:52:03 -0400From: RStJean at NRCan.gc.caTo: dbriden at magma.ca; growwine at littlefatwino.comSubject: Re: [Growwine] freeze > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Cantley Quebec just north of Gatineau, it was -1C this morning and roofs were white along with some ground frost. I covered the grapes that I could and left the tarps because they are calling for a repeat overnight.> > > > Rob> > > > > > > > > > > > From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Doug BridenSent: May 28, 2008 10:12 AMTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comSubject: Re: [Growwine] freeze> > > > Larry, west end of Ottawa had reported some minor frost and about 3 degrees. I saw 5.6 this morning at 6:30 an no signs of frost in Luskville. The Weather Network shows an online stat for the Gatineau airport (North-East) of Ottawa hit -1 degree at 6 a.m. this morning. Did you folks up in Cantley see any frost ?> > Doug. On Wed 28/05/08 09:27 , "Larry Paterson" littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca sent: > > > > > > We had zero degrees for two hours this morning in Peterborough. > > > > > > > > did anyone get hit harder last night? > > > > > > > > Lardy > > > > > > > > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) > > > > > > > > http://www.littlefatwino.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________> > Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now!> > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212> > > _______________________________________________> Growwine mailing list> Growwine at littlefatwino.com> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _________________________________________________________________ If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080602/5e7b8f00/attachment.html From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca Mon Jun 2 09:22:17 2008 From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 09:22:17 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] freeze References: <.1211983902@magma.ca><5C27639FDEA8CE4D8EC1F382903DE5FA03F67A23@s0-ott-x1.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> <200806011612.m51GCLxw067131@podracer.gwi.net> Message-ID: <004c01c8c4b4$2f5a17d0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> The story of our Famous Fume is online at http://littlefatwino.com/smokeout2000.html seems that Raymond's marketing plan included smoking out the entire community of Aylmer Quebec, in hopes that those people who came out in the middle of the night would be so impressed that they would come back as customers. Fume have you made your Fireman's Red wine yet? Lardy Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: ASSOCIATION DES VITICULTEURS DE L'EST ONTARIEN To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:41 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] freeze I now use wax fire logs that I buy at Canadian Tire or RenoDepot and place them every 20 feet. With wet straw to make enough smoke. In the past I was using real wood but I stoped. The reason is explained on my friend the Littlefatwino's web site.. FUME.. WEB: http://site.voila.fr/aveo/ http://site.voila.fr/aveo2/ > From: fleurdelis at gwi.net > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:12:21 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Growwine] freeze > > Can you explain how to position fires to protect the vines, to someone who > has never seen this done before? > Thank you, > Michele > > ASSOCIATION DES VITICULTEURS DE L'EST ONTARIEN writes: > > > > > On the 28th of May I was sat outside in the vineyard at 4am with all my little fires ready to be lighted. The temperature went down to 0C at 5 am and strarted to climb all the suden with the lake effect and wind coming from the City of Ottawa. Nos dammages at all in Aylmer. But in Mont?bello it went down to -1C. I pruned these vines at the end of april and they are late in Montebello. The Frontenac are also having a second life regarding frost. So the dammades are not too bad. The Vandal Cliche resisted the -1C. That is all what they resist these stupid vines... The Sabrevois resisted also the -1C. Well I am sorry. No second millenium story Guys! So I will have enough wine for the Lusksville Growwiner. > > FUMEWEB: http://site.voila.fr/aveo/ http://site.voila.fr/aveo2/ > > > > > > Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 11:52:03 -0400From: RStJean at NRCan.gc.caTo: dbriden at magma.ca; growwine at littlefatwino.comSubject: Re: [Growwine] freeze > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Cantley Quebec just north of Gatineau, it was -1C this morning and roofs were white along with some ground frost. I covered the grapes that I could and left the tarps because they are calling for a repeat overnight. > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Doug BridenSent: May 28, 2008 10:12 AMTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comSubject: Re: [Growwine] freeze > > > > Larry, west end of Ottawa had reported some minor frost and about 3 degrees. I saw 5.6 this morning at 6:30 an no signs of frost in Luskville. The Weather Network shows an online stat for the Gatineau airport (North-East) of Ottawa hit -1 degree at 6 a.m. this morning. Did you folks up in Cantley see any frost ? > > Doug. On Wed 28/05/08 09:27 , "Larry Paterson" littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca sent: > > > > > > We had zero degrees for two hours this morning in Peterborough. > > > > > > > > did anyone get hit harder last night? > > > > > > > > Lardy > > > > > > > > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) > > > > > > > > http://www.littlefatwino.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! > > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080602/e18e48f8/attachment.html From gmcintos at hotmail.com Mon Jun 2 09:28:29 2008 From: gmcintos at hotmail.com (garfield mcintosh) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 13:28:29 +0000 Subject: [Growwine] cedar mulch In-Reply-To: <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F003EB3573@hosted4.myexchange.ad> References: <.1211983902@magma.ca><5C27639FDEA8CE4D8EC1F382903DE5FA03F67A23@s0-ott-x1.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> <200806011612.m51GCLxw067131@podracer.gwi.net> <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F003EB3573@hosted4.myexchange.ad> Message-ID: Hi everyone I friend of mine near my vineyard has decided to start a vineyard as well. I have been helping with some advise and I have one concern about what he is doing with this year's planting. He is going to use a chipper to reduce cedar branches to mulch size and place this in the row to prevent weed growth. Are there any problems that this will cause? Does it inhibit growth? Are there any fungal diseases that this mulch will inhibit or enhance? Will it retain moisture ?. How will it affect soil pH? ARE THER ANY WEBSITES ABOUT THIS TYPE OF MULCH? Thanks PS: There was no frost on Manitoulin island on May 28th. Lake huron protected the area from lows the rest of the province had. We also have an inland lake at the base of the vineyard. Vignobles de la Cloche Sheguaindah On _________________________________________________________________ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000009ukm/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080602/fba2d33e/attachment.html From fleurdelis at gwi.net Mon Jun 2 20:06:07 2008 From: fleurdelis at gwi.net (Michele Roberge) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:06:07 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] cedar mulch In-Reply-To: References: <.1211983902@magma.ca> <5C27639FDEA8CE4D8EC1F382903DE5FA03F67A23@s0-ott-x1.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> <200806011612.m51GCLxw067131@podracer.gwi.net> <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F003EB3573@hosted4.myexchange.ad> Message-ID: <200806030006.m530671D035679@podracer.gwi.net> I tried it last year and was growing mushrooms in pretty short order, now I use leaf mulch (run thru chipper). Michele garfield mcintosh writes: > > > > Hi everyone > I friend of mine near my vineyard has decided to start a vineyard as well. I have been helping with some advise and I have one concern about what he is doing with this year's planting. He is going to use a chipper to reduce cedar branches to mulch size and place this in the row to prevent weed growth. Are there any problems that this will cause? Does it inhibit growth? Are there any fungal diseases that this mulch will inhibit or enhance? Will it retain moisture ?. How will it affect soil pH? ARE THER ANY WEBSITES ABOUT THIS TYPE OF MULCH? > Thanks > PS: There was no frost on Manitoulin island on May 28th. Lake huron protected the area from lows the rest of the province had. We also have an inland lake at the base of the vineyard. > Vignobles de la Cloche > Sheguaindah On > > _________________________________________________________________ > > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000009ukm/direct/01/ From jomuam at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 22:46:25 2008 From: jomuam at yahoo.com (andy jones) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] cedar mulch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <715975.17666.qm@web52803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> My thought is that as the mulch decomposes it releases nitrogen which will increase vigor which is not what you want necessarily. __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca From marklewisglass at sympatico.ca Mon Jun 2 23:16:48 2008 From: marklewisglass at sympatico.ca (Mark Lewis) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 23:16:48 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] cedar mulch In-Reply-To: <715975.17666.qm@web52803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I also believe that the mulch will cause more roots to grow too near the surface which would then be more likely to be destroyed by winter freezing. > From: andy jones > Reply-To: jomuam at yahoo.com, growwine at littlefatwino.com > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:46:25 -0700 (PDT) > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Subject: Re: [Growwine] cedar mulch > > My thought is that as the mulch decomposes it releases nitrogen which will > increase vigor which is not what you want necessarily. > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot > with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail > today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From laura-sabourin at sympatico.ca Tue Jun 3 08:11:02 2008 From: laura-sabourin at sympatico.ca (Laura) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 08:11:02 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] cedar mulch References: <715975.17666.qm@web52803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: actually wood chips require nitrogen to breakdown so they have a reverse effect on available nitrogen. Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: "andy jones" To: Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] cedar mulch > My thought is that as the mulch decomposes it releases nitrogen which will > increase vigor which is not what you want necessarily. > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the > boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to > New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From RStJean at NRCan.gc.ca Tue Jun 3 08:35:42 2008 From: RStJean at NRCan.gc.ca (St-Jean, Rob (ES)) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 08:35:42 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] cedar mulch In-Reply-To: References: <715975.17666.qm@web52803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5C27639FDEA8CE4D8EC1F382903DE5FA03F67A3A@s0-ott-x1.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> Can one add a bit of nitrogen fertilizer to compensate for that which is used up by the micro-organisms that break down the wood chips? I believe Cedar mulch has been used for years around ornamentals without signs of significant nitrogen deficiencies to plants. Isn't it true that too much nitrogen applied to grapes is not advisable since you will get too much vigorous growth and too little fruit development or lower quality fruit so perhaps the mulch would not harm the vines in the first place as long as there is enough in the soil already? So I was wondering if perhaps a bit of nitrogen or clover might help to compensate without causing too much vigorous growth while getting the benefit from better moisture retention such as in my case. I don't know however if the mulch could slow down the process of the canes going dormant because of the added insulation, but one could always pull some of the mulch away from the stems in the fall. I welcome all of your opinions on this. In time I will know more from the reactions of my plants. Cheers, Robert St-Jean Cantley, Quebec -----Original Message----- From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Laura Sent: June 3, 2008 8:11 AM To: jomuam at yahoo.com; growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] cedar mulch actually wood chips require nitrogen to breakdown so they have a reverse effect on available nitrogen. Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: "andy jones" To: Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] cedar mulch > My thought is that as the mulch decomposes it releases nitrogen which will > increase vigor which is not what you want necessarily. > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the > boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to > New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From farm at surfglobal.net Tue Jun 3 15:06:47 2008 From: farm at surfglobal.net (Per Garp) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 15:06:47 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] cedar mulch References: <.1211983902@magma.ca><5C27639FDEA8CE4D8EC1F382903DE5FA03F67A23@s0-ott-x1.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca><200806011612.m51GCLxw067131@podracer.gwi.net><87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F003EB3573@hosted4.myexchange.ad> <200806030006.m530671D035679@podracer.gwi.net> Message-ID: <00ee01c8c5ad$00c71400$ac22833f@GARPS> Michele Mushrooms is not bad for grapes are they ? I think any fungus dominated soil is good for grapes ! Per ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michele Roberge" To: Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] cedar mulch >I tried it last year and was growing mushrooms in pretty short order, now I > use leaf mulch (run thru chipper). > Michele > > garfield mcintosh writes: > >> >> >> >> Hi everyone >> I friend of mine near my vineyard has decided to start a vineyard as >> well. I have been helping with some advise and I have one concern about >> what he is doing with this year's planting. He is going to use a chipper >> to reduce cedar branches to mulch size and place this in the row to >> prevent weed growth. Are there any problems that this will cause? Does it >> inhibit growth? Are there any fungal diseases that this mulch will >> inhibit or enhance? Will it retain moisture ?. How will it affect soil >> pH? ARE THER ANY WEBSITES ABOUT THIS TYPE OF MULCH? >> Thanks >> PS: There was no frost on Manitoulin island on May 28th. Lake huron >> protected the area from lows the rest of the province had. We also have >> an inland lake at the base of the vineyard. >> Vignobles de la Cloche >> Sheguaindah On >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> >> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000009ukm/direct/01/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From farm at surfglobal.net Tue Jun 3 15:08:16 2008 From: farm at surfglobal.net (Per Garp) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 15:08:16 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] cedar mulch References: <715975.17666.qm@web52803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00f301c8c5ad$37fa1710$ac22833f@GARPS> wood ships (if a mixture) will decompost at a very slow rate perhapas at 1 or 2 as a nitrogen walue. Per ----- Original Message ----- From: "andy jones" To: Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] cedar mulch > My thought is that as the mulch decomposes it releases nitrogen which will > increase vigor which is not what you want necessarily. > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the > boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to > New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From farm at surfglobal.net Tue Jun 3 15:10:19 2008 From: farm at surfglobal.net (Per Garp) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 15:10:19 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] cedar mulch References: Message-ID: <00fa01c8c5ad$813c35c0$ac22833f@GARPS> I have not seen that I'm tests here, but frizzing issues can be true but only if you are having new planet grapes, I recommend not to apply chips until after the 2 or 3 year. Per ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Lewis" To: <"jomuam at yahoo.com, growwine"@littlefatwino.com> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] cedar mulch >I also believe that the mulch will cause more roots to grow too near the > surface which would then be more likely to be destroyed by winter > freezing. > >> From: andy jones >> Reply-To: jomuam at yahoo.com, growwine at littlefatwino.com >> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:46:25 -0700 (PDT) >> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >> Subject: Re: [Growwine] cedar mulch >> >> My thought is that as the mulch decomposes it releases nitrogen which >> will >> increase vigor which is not what you want necessarily. >> >> >> >> __________________________________________________________________ >> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the >> boot >> with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New >> Mail >> today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca >> _______________________________________________ >> Growwine mailing list >> Growwine at littlefatwino.com >> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From farm at surfglobal.net Tue Jun 3 15:14:43 2008 From: farm at surfglobal.net (Per Garp) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 15:14:43 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] cedar mulch References: <715975.17666.qm@web52803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5C27639FDEA8CE4D8EC1F382903DE5FA03F67A3A@s0-ott-x1.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> Message-ID: <010b01c8c5ae$1d89f160$ac22833f@GARPS> only use 1 or 2 year old stuff, if you have to ad nitrogen I would add organic low nitrogen stuff. 3,0,0 or max 5,0,0,. If you have new stuff -make sure you put it to old stock. clover is good, but only White Dutch clover as it grows 5 inch height. the balance is way to tall. Per ----- Original Message ----- From: "St-Jean, Rob (ES)" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] cedar mulch > Can one add a bit of nitrogen fertilizer to compensate for that which is > used up by the micro-organisms that break down the wood chips? I believe > Cedar mulch has been used for years around ornamentals without signs of > significant nitrogen deficiencies to plants. Isn't it true that too much > nitrogen applied to grapes is not advisable since you will get too much > vigorous growth and too little fruit development or lower quality fruit > so perhaps the mulch would not harm the vines in the first place as long > as there is enough in the soil already? So I was wondering if perhaps a > bit of nitrogen or clover might help to compensate without causing too > much vigorous growth while getting the benefit from better moisture > retention such as in my case. I don't know however if the mulch could > slow down the process of the canes going dormant because of the added > insulation, but one could always pull some of the mulch away from the > stems in the fall. I welcome all of your opinions on this. In time I > will know more from the reactions of my plants. > > Cheers, > > Robert St-Jean > Cantley, Quebec > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com > [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Laura > Sent: June 3, 2008 8:11 AM > To: jomuam at yahoo.com; growwine at littlefatwino.com > Subject: Re: [Growwine] cedar mulch > > actually wood chips require nitrogen to breakdown so they have a reverse > > effect on available nitrogen. > > Laura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "andy jones" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] cedar mulch > > >> My thought is that as the mulch decomposes it releases nitrogen which > will >> increase vigor which is not what you want necessarily. >> >> >> >> > __________________________________________________________________ >> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email > the >> boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and > switch to >> New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca >> _______________________________________________ >> Growwine mailing list >> Growwine at littlefatwino.com >> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Tue Jun 3 17:13:26 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 14:13:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. Message-ID: <310244.52563.qm@web32101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: melissa lounsbury To: Larry Paterson Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 8:00:11 AM Subject: Road side signs. I see on the news that the government wants to stop roadside signs. I was wondering if that means all signs like wine an grape growers? They showed some of the signs in Norfork county an they where back off the road. Maybe because we are getting so many signs on the roads that people are becomes distracted from what they should be doing. I know some places you have to almost pull into traffic to see what is coming I wonder how this will effect the wine industry as how will people driving through find you unless they have a map.? Maurice Lounsbury. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080603/bf023503/attachment.html From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca Tue Jun 3 19:47:30 2008 From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 19:47:30 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. References: <310244.52563.qm@web32101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007301c8c5d4$327bec60$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> I think they'd do better to ban cell phones instead of signs. I was almost hit twice in Toronto today! Lardy Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: melissa lounsbury To: Growing Wine in Cold Climates Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:13 PM Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: melissa lounsbury To: Larry Paterson Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 8:00:11 AM Subject: Road side signs. I see on the news that the government wants to stop roadside signs. I was wondering if that means all signs like wine an grape growers? They showed some of the signs in Norfork county an they where back off the road. Maybe because we are getting so many signs on the roads that people are becomes distracted from what they should be doing. I know some places you have to almost pull into traffic to see what is coming I wonder how this will effect the wine industry as how will people driving t hrough find you unless they have a map. Maurice Lounsbury. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080603/e5eba8ab/attachment.html From rono at mindlinktech.com Tue Jun 3 20:05:39 2008 From: rono at mindlinktech.com (Ron Olinyk) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:05:39 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. In-Reply-To: <007301c8c5d4$327bec60$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> References: <310244.52563.qm@web32101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <007301c8c5d4$327bec60$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Message-ID: <4845DC53.1020607@mindlinktech.com> Yikes! Was that you? Sorry..! Actually I was nowhere near there. I just got in from spraying the fruit trees, only to hear the rumble of thunder in the distance. Man, sure wish there was a 'sign' for rain. :) Cheers, Ron O Larry Paterson wrote: > I think they'd do better to ban cell phones instead of signs. I was > almost hit twice in Toronto today! > > Lardy > > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc > (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) > > http://www.littlefatwino.com/ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* melissa lounsbury > *To:* Growing Wine in Cold Climates > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:13 PM > *Subject:* [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > From: melissa lounsbury > > To: Larry Paterson > > Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 8:00:11 AM > Subject: Road side signs. > > I see on the news that the government wants to stop roadside signs. I > was wondering if that means all signs like wine an grape growers? They > showed some of the signs in Norfork county an they where back off the > road. Maybe because we are getting so many signs on the roads that > people are becomes distracted from what they should be doing. I know > some places you have to almost pull into traffic to see what is coming > I wonder how this will effect the wine industry as how will people > driving t hrough find you unless they have a map. Maurice Lounsbury. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > From vnefv at brant.net Tue Jun 3 20:52:33 2008 From: vnefv at brant.net (Phil Ryan) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 20:52:33 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. References: <310244.52563.qm@web32101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00c501c8c5dd$49ba75a0$df24cdd1@mycomputer> Hi Maurice; The signs are a big problem for us. We are off the main road, and I would like to have signs at each of 4 roads that lead to us. Phil Ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: melissa lounsbury To: Growing Wine in Cold Climates Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:13 PM Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: melissa lounsbury To: Larry Paterson Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 8:00:11 AM Subject: Road side signs. I see on the news that the government wants to stop roadside signs. I was wondering if that means all signs like wine an grape growers? They showed some of the signs in Norfork county an they where back off the road. Maybe because we are getting so many signs on the roads that people are becomes distracted from what they should be doing. I know some places you have to almost pull into traffic to see what is coming I wonder how this will effect the wine industry as how will people driving through find you unless they have a map. Maurice Lounsbury. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080603/b6b9b650/attachment.html From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca Wed Jun 4 08:45:15 2008 From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:45:15 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. References: <310244.52563.qm@web32101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00c501c8c5dd$49ba75a0$df24cdd1@mycomputer> Message-ID: <002101c8c640$d8b8b790$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> But Phil wouldn't it just be so much nicer if you were able to rent a little space in a grocery store in Simcoe? Lardy Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. Hi Maurice; The signs are a big problem for us. We are off the main road, and I would like to have signs at each of 4 roads that lead to us. Phil Ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: melissa lounsbury To: Growing Wine in Cold Climates Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:13 PM Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: melissa lounsbury To: Larry Paterson Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 8:00:11 AM Subject: Road side signs. I see on the news that the government wants to stop roadside signs. I was wondering if that means all signs like wine an grape growers? They showed some of the signs in Norfork county an they where back off the road. Maybe because we are getting so many signs on the roads that people are becomes distracted from what they should be doing. I know some places you have to almost pull into traffic to see what is coming I wonder how this will effect the wine industry as how will people driving through find you unless they have a map. Maurice Lounsbury. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080604/b0564968/attachment.html From ryan.daum at gmail.com Wed Jun 4 09:11:30 2008 From: ryan.daum at gmail.com (Ryan) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 09:11:30 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. In-Reply-To: <002101c8c640$d8b8b790$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> References: <310244.52563.qm@web32101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00c501c8c5dd$49ba75a0$df24cdd1@mycomputer> <002101c8c640$d8b8b790$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Message-ID: <5e5a8c000806040611n3e9585e1r9198923af156a405@mail.gmail.com> Heresy... if we let alcohol be sold anywhere... the sinners win... :-) Ryan On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Larry Paterson wrote: > But Phil > > wouldn't it just be so much nicer if you were able to rent a little space > in a grocery store in Simcoe? > > > Lardy > > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc > (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) > > http://www.littlefatwino.com/ > > > ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Phil Ryan > *To:* growwine at littlefatwino.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 03, 2008 8:52 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. > > Hi Maurice; > The signs are a big problem for us. We are off the main road, and I would > like to have signs at each of 4 roads that lead to us. > Phil Ryan > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* melissa lounsbury > *To:* Growing Wine in Cold Climates > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:13 PM > *Subject:* [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > From: melissa lounsbury > To: Larry Paterson > Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 8:00:11 AM > Subject: Road side signs. > > I see on the news that the government wants to stop roadside signs. I was > wondering if that means all signs like wine an grape growers? They showed > some of the signs in Norfork county an they where back off the road. Maybe > because we are getting so many signs on the roads that people are becomes > distracted from what they should be doing. I know some places you have to > almost pull into traffic to see what is coming I wonder how this will effect > the wine industry as how will people driving through find you unless they > have a map. Maurice Lounsbury. > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 > 7:00 AM > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080604/7705525f/attachment.html From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Wed Jun 4 09:27:41 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 06:27:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. Message-ID: <666388.76616.qm@web32102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I agree to a point.But if roadside signs where used in a tactful way an not placed all over the place it would make a difference. I know when I was on the MTO we had to tell people where they could put signs an how far?from the shoulder of the road.Now they have them almost in traffic, because each person is trying to out do the other. We can see this in the cities there?are so many signs you can hardly see the street signs.I know everyone is trying to make a living, so the more signs the better chance someone will see it, but there comes a point where too many is too many. Maurice.. ----- Original Message ---- From: Larry Paterson To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2008 8:45:15 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. But Phil ? wouldn't it just be so much nicer if you were able to rent a little space in a grocery store in Simcoe? ? ? Lardy ? Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) ? http://www.littlefatwino.com/ ? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. Hi Maurice; The signs are a big problem for us. We are off the main road, and I would like to have signs at each of 4 roads that lead to us. Phil Ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: melissa lounsbury To: Growing Wine in Cold Climates Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:13 PM Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: melissa lounsbury To: Larry Paterson Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 8:00:11 AM Subject: Road side signs. I see on the news that the government wants to stop roadside signs. I was wondering if that means all signs like wine an grape growers? They showed some of the signs in Norfork county an they where back off the road. Maybe because we are getting so many signs on the roads that people are becomes distracted from what they should be doing. I know some places you have to almost pull into traffic to see what is coming I wonder how this will effect the wine industry as how will people driving through find you unless they have a map.? Maurice Lounsbury. ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00 AM ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080604/9b61d49c/attachment.html From patryde at videotron.ca Wed Jun 4 10:23:18 2008 From: patryde at videotron.ca (patryde@videotron.ca) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 10:23:18 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches In-Reply-To: <010b01c8c5ae$1d89f160$ac22833f@GARPS> References: <715975.17666.qm@web52803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5C27639FDEA8CE4D8EC1F382903DE5FA03F67A3A@s0-ott-x1.nrn.nrcan.gc.ca> <010b01c8c5ae$1d89f160$ac22833f@GARPS> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080604/ecefb388/attachment.html From dolores_solutions at yahoo.ca Wed Jun 4 12:14:02 2008 From: dolores_solutions at yahoo.ca (Dolores Smith) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 09:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <346109.23078.qm@web56209.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I was advised by an OMAFRA grape specialist not to use plastic mulch given a negative effect on the vine's root system.  He suggested landscaping cloth if I wanted to pursue that type of a weed block...then. a landscaper informed me that the regular landscaping cloth purchased at retail would not do the job well and the higher quality professional cloth would be too expensive for that type of an application.   Last season I used straw mulch.  I also had more problems with powdery mildew than write-ups for cold hardy grapes indicate should occur, so perhaps it was the season last year or the fact that straw supports the spread of powdery mildew...?   Dolores Smith Erin, ON --- On Wed, 6/4/08, patryde at videotron.ca <patryde at videotron.ca> wrote: From: patryde at videotron.ca <patryde at videotron.ca> Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Received: Wednesday, June 4, 2008, 10:23 AM Does anyone try plastic mulch --- Wavelength selective mulches with vines ? http://www4.agr.gc.ca/AAFC-AAC/display-afficher.do?id=1190147996765&lang= Wavelength selective mulches, such as the infrared transmissible mulches (IRT), have become available. IRT mulches blend the soil warming characteristics of clear mulch with the weed control ability of black mulch. Denis Patry Qu?bec city,    _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080604/99e9eda6/attachment.html From pabls at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 12:31:31 2008 From: pabls at yahoo.com (Paul Bulas) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 09:31:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches Message-ID: <979620.93793.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I have some personal experience here. Some years ago, I planted a vine against a fence. Covering the bare ground between the fence and the concrete walkway was a piece of cloth-type black material which itself was covered over with white landscaping stones. A year later, my vine pushed new growth ... and suddenly died. Perplexed, I dug up the vine and examined the roots - they had rotted completely, and were black and dead - and there was a moldy odour coming from under the fabric. I subsequently ripped out the fabric entirely (it had originally been put there to control weeds) and covered the immediate area with just the white landscaping stones. Since then, my replacement vine has thrived, and only occasional weeds have popped up, which are no problem to remove by hand. So it seems that roots need to breathe too. ----- Original Message ---- From: Dolores Smith To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2008 12:14:02 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches I was advised by an OMAFRA grape specialist not to use plastic mulch given a negative effect on the vine's root system. He suggested landscaping cloth if I wanted to pursue that type of a weed block...then. a landscaper informed me that the regular landscaping cloth purchased at retail would not do the job well and the higher quality professional cloth would be too expensive for that type of an application. Last season I used straw mulch. I also had more problems with powdery mildew than write-ups for cold hardy grapes indicate should occur, so perhaps it was the season last year or the fact that straw supports the spread of powdery mildew...? Dolores Smith Erin, ON __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080604/7994518c/attachment.html From farm at surfglobal.net Wed Jun 4 15:58:26 2008 From: farm at surfglobal.net (Per Garp) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 15:58:26 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches References: <346109.23078.qm@web56209.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00eb01c8c67d$9bc3a100$c922833f@GARPS> Dolores What negative effect on vines root system ? I have tested plastic with good result, my problem have been with the quality of the products. From what I can see clear plastic is the best if it hold up. Mulch of straw and manure will promote weeds. Per ----- Original Message ----- From: Dolores Smith To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches I was advised by an OMAFRA grape specialist not to use plastic mulch given a negative effect on the vine's root system. He suggested landscaping cloth if I wanted to pursue that type of a weed block...then. a landscaper informed me that the regular landscaping cloth purchased at retail would not do the job well and the higher quality professional cloth would be too expensive for that type of an application. Last season I used straw mulch. I also had more problems with powdery mildew than write-ups for cold hardy grapes indicate should occur, so perhaps it was the season last year or the fact that straw supports the spread of powdery mildew...? Dolores Smith Erin, ON --- On Wed, 6/4/08, patryde at videotron.ca wrote: From: patryde at videotron.ca Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Received: Wednesday, June 4, 2008, 10:23 AM Does anyone try plastic mulch --- Wavelength selective mulches with vines ? http://www4.agr.gc.ca/AAFC-AAC/display-afficher.do?id=1190147996765&lang= Wavelength selective mulches, such as the infrared transmissible mulches (IRT), have become available. IRT mulches blend the soil warming characteristics of clear mulch with the weed control ability of black mulch. Denis Patry Qu?bec city, _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080604/7b9e5939/attachment.html From canadavintage at hotmail.com Wed Jun 4 16:25:08 2008 From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (CanadaVintage) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 17:25:08 -0300 Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. References: <310244.52563.qm@web32101.mail.mud.yahoo.com><00c501c8c5dd$49ba75a0$df24cdd1@mycomputer> <002101c8c640$d8b8b790$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Message-ID: I think what's needed is a few million bottles of Canadian wine smashed into bits on the front steps of the Parliament building. That should get someone's attention!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Paterson To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. But Phil wouldn't it just be so much nicer if you were able to rent a little space in a grocery store in Simcoe? Lardy Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. Hi Maurice; The signs are a big problem for us. We are off the main road, and I would like to have signs at each of 4 roads that lead to us. Phil Ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: melissa lounsbury To: Growing Wine in Cold Climates Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:13 PM Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: melissa lounsbury To: Larry Paterson Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 8:00:11 AM Subject: Road side signs. I see on the news that the government wants to stop roadside signs. I was wondering if that means all signs like wine an grape growers? They showed some of the signs in Norfork county an they where back off the road. Maybe because we are getting so many signs on the roads that people are becomes distracted from what they should be doing. I know some places you have to almost pull into traffic to see what is coming I wonder how this will effect the wine industry as how will people driving through find you unless they have a map. Maurice Lounsbury. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080604/0eba09e3/attachment.html From pabls at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 17:25:38 2008 From: pabls at yahoo.com (Paul Bulas) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 14:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. Message-ID: <585811.97228.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I'd just make sure it was corked or otherwise off so as to, ahem, create a stink... I mean, why waste good Canadian wine? :) ----- Original Message ---- From: CanadaVintage To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2008 4:25:08 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. I think what's needed is a few million bottles of Canadian wine smashed into bits on the front steps of the Parliament building. That should get someone's attention!!! __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080604/d4167472/attachment-0001.html From redwine at charter.net Wed Jun 4 19:23:08 2008 From: redwine at charter.net (Rob McDowell) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 18:23:08 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches In-Reply-To: <346109.23078.qm@web56209.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <346109.23078.qm@web56209.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <484723DC.40705@charter.net> Dolores, Black plastic mulch is extensively used in the Champlain Valley of NY and VT as a weed barrier to good effect, with no observed negative effect. The IRT mulches are probably better but much more expensive. It's not a problem for most of the grape growing world as they just pump the post emergence herbicides, but you've got to hope there's a better way. Rob McDowell Dolores Smith wrote: > > I was advised by an OMAFRA grape specialist not to use plastic mulch > given a negative effect on the vine's root system. He suggested > landscaping cloth if I wanted to pursue that type of a weed > block...then. a landscaper informed me that the regular landscaping > cloth purchased at retail would not do the job well and the higher > quality professional cloth would be too expensive for that type of an > application. > > > > Last season I used straw mulch. I also had more problems with powdery > mildew than write-ups for cold hardy grapes indicate should occur, so > perhaps it was the season last year or the fact that straw supports > the spread of powdery mildew...? > > > > Dolores Smith > > Erin, ON > > --- On *Wed, 6/4/08, patryde at videotron.ca //* wrote: > > From: patryde at videotron.ca > Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Received: Wednesday, June 4, 2008, 10:23 AM > > Does anyone try plastic mulch --- Wavelength selective > mulches with vines ? > > http://www4.agr.gc.ca/AAFC-AAC/display-afficher.do?id=1190147996765&lang > = > > Wavelength selective mulches, such as the infrared transmissible > mulches (IRT), have become available. IRT mulches blend the soil > warming characteristics of clear mulch with the weed control > ability of black mulch. > > Denis Patry > > Qu?bec city, > > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > From lonrom at hevanet.com Wed Jun 4 19:43:41 2008 From: lonrom at hevanet.com (Lon J. Rombough) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 16:43:41 -0700 Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches In-Reply-To: <484723DC.40705@charter.net> References: <346109.23078.qm@web56209.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <484723DC.40705@charter.net> Message-ID: <07569b455d2f2a44a7e28ec314341e83@hevanet.com> I was recently told of a new type of plastic film for mulch use that is starch based and degrades after a season. Sounds like an ideal material for new grape rows. Sorry, no sources. You'd have to search for biodegradable plastic films. -Lon Rombough Grapes, writing, consulting, my book, The Grape Grower, at http://www.bunchgrapes.com Winner of the Garden Writers Association "Best Talent in Writing" award for 2003. For even more grape lessons, go to http://www.grapeschool.com For all other things grape, http://www.vitisearch.com A video about The Grape Grower : http://cookingupastory.com/index.php/2008/04/18/the-grape-grower/ On Jun 4, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Rob McDowell wrote: Dolores, Black plastic mulch is extensively used in the Champlain Valley of NY and VT as a weed barrier to good effect, with no observed negative effect. The IRT mulches are probably better but much more expensive. It's not a problem for most of the grape growing world as they just pump the post emergence herbicides, but you've got to hope there's a better way. Rob McDowell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080604/2f26fa40/attachment.bin From lonrom at hevanet.com Wed Jun 4 19:49:12 2008 From: lonrom at hevanet.com (Lon J. Rombough) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 16:49:12 -0700 Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches In-Reply-To: <346109.23078.qm@web56209.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <346109.23078.qm@web56209.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <027bcc9a03a739d773526f81173eb583@hevanet.com> http://www.powersourcing.com/sf/biodegradableplasticfilm.htm = A good collection of potential sources for biodegradable plastic films. -Lon Rombough Grapes, writing, consulting, my book, The Grape Grower, at http://www.bunchgrapes.com Winner of the Garden Writers Association "Best Talent in Writing" award for 2003. For even more grape lessons, go to http://www.grapeschool.com For all other things grape, http://www.vitisearch.com A video about The Grape Grower : http://cookingupastory.com/index.php/2008/04/18/the-grape-grower/ On Jun 4, 2008, at 9:14 AM, Dolores Smith wrote: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 700 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080604/059837b8/attachment.bin From midmp at abacom.com Thu Jun 5 02:45:02 2008 From: midmp at abacom.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_Par=E9?=) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 22:45:02 -0800 Subject: [Growwine] Easterne Townships rport - baltica and copper Message-ID: <48471AEE.28953.1FBA316E@midmp.abacom.com> Hi gang, a quick note from the field. I suspect Baltica is somewhat susceptible to copper phytotoxicity. Everything else is fine from last Friday's spray of copper oxychloride ( NO LIME - I use the european label - oups :-) - as I've been for the last 3 yrs with no problem) anyone has use pine or mint oil to reduce copper rate ? Had heard back in 1992 of a product called heliosol for that purpose in Europe with good results but could not find a labelled equivalent 'round here. Now it appears mint oil is also used over there (organic) martin From fleurdelis at gwi.net Thu Jun 5 09:07:58 2008 From: fleurdelis at gwi.net (Michele Roberge) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 09:07:58 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches In-Reply-To: <979620.93793.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <979620.93793.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200806051307.m55D7wfX062788@podracer.gwi.net> Paul, The use of black ground covering mulch has been studied for the mass production greenhouse growing industry, it was found that initially there was good soil activity (worms and such) beneath but in a season or two the soil virtually "died" under the barrier cloth. This is the usual industrial heavy stuff with lines on it. The thought was to plant in holes or slices cut through. The Master Gardeners are taught to use newspaper(black & white is vegetable based ink) under mulch. This degrades in a season with enough time to kill weeds beneath. Clear plastic solarization only created a greenhouse for the grass under it in my cool area. Michele Paul Bulas writes: > I have some personal experience here. Some years ago, I planted a vine against a fence. Covering the bare ground between the fence and the concrete walkway was a piece of cloth-type black material which itself was covered over with white landscaping stones. A year later, my vine pushed new growth ... and suddenly died. Perplexed, I dug up the vine and examined the roots - they had rotted completely, and were black and dead - and there was a moldy odour coming from under the fabric. I subsequently ripped out the fabric entirely (it had originally been put there to control weeds) and covered the immediate area with just the white landscaping stones. Since then, my replacement vine has thrived, and only occasional weeds have popped up, which are no problem to remove by hand. So it seems that roots need to breathe too. > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Dolores Smith > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2008 12:14:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches > > > I was advised by an OMAFRA grape specialist not to use plastic mulch given a negative effect on the vine's root system. He suggested landscaping cloth if I wanted to pursue that type of a weed block...then. a landscaper informed me that the regular landscaping cloth purchased at retail would not do the job well and the higher quality professional cloth would be too expensive for that type of an application. > > Last season I used straw mulch. I also had more problems with powdery mildew than write-ups for cold hardy grapes indicate should occur, so perhaps it was the season last year or the fact that straw supports the spread of powdery mildew...? > > Dolores Smith > Erin, ON > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com From coquine at endirect.qc.ca Thu Jun 5 09:37:42 2008 From: coquine at endirect.qc.ca (Alain Breault) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 09:37:42 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches References: <979620.93793.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <200806051307.m55D7wfX062788@podracer.gwi.net> Message-ID: <657E1C7A76944CFEAE1C29D733765487@alain> There is vineyards in Quebec with black plastic mulch for over 12 years and so far no problem , roots are not shallow and soil is alive. Round-up was used after 5-6 years because too many bad weed growing in every accidental holes Alain Breault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michele Roberge" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches > Paul, > The use of black ground covering mulch has been studied for the mass > production greenhouse growing industry, it was found that initially there > was good soil activity (worms and such) beneath but in a season or two the > soil virtually "died" under the barrier cloth. This is the usual > industrial > heavy stuff with lines on it. The thought was to plant in holes or slices > cut through. The Master Gardeners are taught to use newspaper(black & > white > is vegetable based ink) under mulch. This degrades in a season with > enough > time to kill weeds beneath. Clear plastic solarization only created a > greenhouse for the grass under it in my cool area. > > Michele > > Paul Bulas writes: > >> I have some personal experience here. Some years ago, I planted a vine >> against a fence. Covering the bare ground between the fence and the >> concrete walkway was a piece of cloth-type black material which itself >> was covered over with white landscaping stones. A year later, my vine >> pushed new growth ... and suddenly died. Perplexed, I dug up the vine >> and examined the roots - they had rotted completely, and were black and >> dead - and there was a moldy odour coming from under the fabric. I >> subsequently ripped out the fabric entirely (it had originally been put >> there to control weeds) and covered the immediate area with just the >> white landscaping stones. Since then, my replacement vine has thrived, >> and only occasional weeds have popped up, which are no problem to remove >> by hand. So it seems that roots need to breathe too. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Dolores Smith >> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >> Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2008 12:14:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches >> >> >> I was advised by an OMAFRA grape specialist not to use plastic mulch >> given a negative effect on the vine's root system. He suggested >> landscaping cloth if I wanted to pursue that type of a weed block...then. >> a landscaper informed me that the regular landscaping cloth purchased at >> retail would not do the job well and the higher quality professional >> cloth would be too expensive for that type of an application. >> >> Last season I used straw mulch. I also had more problems with powdery >> mildew than write-ups for cold hardy grapes indicate should occur, so >> perhaps it was the season last year or the fact that straw supports the >> spread of powdery mildew...? >> >> Dolores Smith >> Erin, ON >> >> >> __________________________________________________________________ >> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to >> Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1485 - Release Date: 05/06/2008 10:07 From smelchis at maine.rr.com Thu Jun 5 19:41:44 2008 From: smelchis at maine.rr.com (Steve Melchiskey) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 19:41:44 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches In-Reply-To: <657E1C7A76944CFEAE1C29D733765487@alain> References: <979620.93793.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <200806051307.m55D7wfX062788@podracer.gwi.net> <657E1C7A76944CFEAE1C29D733765487@alain> Message-ID: <6A357D69-E02A-4A1C-BB92-C511F49C8FC7@maine.rr.com> I've used the woven black mulch for a full 3 years now.....no problems except those identified by Alain. The other issue is that the behind the tractor mower doesn't get near enough to the mulch line, so there is a 4 inch row of weeds I have to weed whack, and deal with or they get very, very high. I don't use round up, but am tempted (too bad I grow organic). It actually has been the best thing I did for my vineyard and my back. I highly recommend it...... I have also been thinking of pulling up the mulch and planting a low, dwarf grass where the mulch was.....some way of using the bare ground as a transition point. Haven't figured this out yet. Need an aggressive growing, dwarf grass...... best, steve maine coast vineyards n Jun 5, 2008, at 9:37 AM, Alain Breault wrote: > There is vineyards in Quebec with black plastic mulch for over 12 > years and > so far no problem , roots are not shallow and soil is alive. Round- > up was > used after 5-6 years because too many bad weed growing in every > accidental > holes > Alain Breault > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michele Roberge" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 9:07 AM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches > > >> Paul, >> The use of black ground covering mulch has been studied for the mass >> production greenhouse growing industry, it was found that >> initially there >> was good soil activity (worms and such) beneath but in a season or >> two the >> soil virtually "died" under the barrier cloth. This is the usual >> industrial >> heavy stuff with lines on it. The thought was to plant in holes >> or slices >> cut through. The Master Gardeners are taught to use newspaper >> (black & >> white >> is vegetable based ink) under mulch. This degrades in a season with >> enough >> time to kill weeds beneath. Clear plastic solarization only >> created a >> greenhouse for the grass under it in my cool area. >> >> Michele >> >> Paul Bulas writes: >> >>> I have some personal experience here. Some years ago, I planted >>> a vine >>> against a fence. Covering the bare ground between the fence and the >>> concrete walkway was a piece of cloth-type black material which >>> itself >>> was covered over with white landscaping stones. A year later, my >>> vine >>> pushed new growth ... and suddenly died. Perplexed, I dug up the >>> vine >>> and examined the roots - they had rotted completely, and were >>> black and >>> dead - and there was a moldy odour coming from under the fabric. I >>> subsequently ripped out the fabric entirely (it had originally >>> been put >>> there to control weeds) and covered the immediate area with just the >>> white landscaping stones. Since then, my replacement vine has >>> thrived, >>> and only occasional weeds have popped up, which are no problem to >>> remove >>> by hand. So it seems that roots need to breathe too. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ---- >>> From: Dolores Smith >>> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2008 12:14:02 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches >>> >>> >>> I was advised by an OMAFRA grape specialist not to use plastic mulch >>> given a negative effect on the vine's root system. He suggested >>> landscaping cloth if I wanted to pursue that type of a weed >>> block...then. >>> a landscaper informed me that the regular landscaping cloth >>> purchased at >>> retail would not do the job well and the higher quality professional >>> cloth would be too expensive for that type of an application. >>> >>> Last season I used straw mulch. I also had more problems with >>> powdery >>> mildew than write-ups for cold hardy grapes indicate should >>> occur, so >>> perhaps it was the season last year or the fact that straw >>> supports the >>> spread of powdery mildew...? >>> >>> Dolores Smith >>> Erin, ON >>> >>> >>> >>> __________________________________________________________________ >>> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to >>> Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http:// >>> ca.answers.yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Growwine mailing list >> Growwine at littlefatwino.com >> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1485 - Release Date: > 05/06/2008 > 10:07 > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From glenda at dccw.ca Fri Jun 6 06:54:30 2008 From: glenda at dccw.ca (Glenda Baker) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:24:30 -0230 Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches In-Reply-To: <6A357D69-E02A-4A1C-BB92-C511F49C8FC7@maine.rr.com> References: <979620.93793.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <200806051307.m55D7wfX062788@podracer.gwi.net> <657E1C7A76944CFEAE1C29D733765487@alain> <6A357D69-E02A-4A1C-BB92-C511F49C8FC7@maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <000c01c8c7c3$b3ac68f0$1b053ad0$@ca> It doesn't matter what is used here, the weeds grow through it, any openings in the fabric for the vines sprout weeds, stones and rocks on top of black fabric don't stop the weeds. Even 4-6 inches of wood chips/mulch don't work. I can't use herbicides so I've been thinking of using a very short aggressive cover bamboo, it gets mowed once each spring, anyone ever tried something like that? Glenda in Newfoundland -----Original Message----- From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Steve Melchiskey Sent: June 5, 2008 9:12 PM To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches I've used the woven black mulch for a full 3 years now.....no problems except those identified by Alain. The other issue is that the behind the tractor mower doesn't get near enough to the mulch line, so there is a 4 inch row of weeds I have to weed whack, and deal with or they get very, very high. I don't use round up, but am tempted (too bad I grow organic). It actually has been the best thing I did for my vineyard and my back. I highly recommend it...... I have also been thinking of pulling up the mulch and planting a low, dwarf grass where the mulch was.....some way of using the bare ground as a transition point. Haven't figured this out yet. Need an aggressive growing, dwarf grass...... best, steve maine coast vineyards From patryde at videotron.ca Fri Jun 6 08:32:43 2008 From: patryde at videotron.ca (patryde@videotron.ca) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 08:32:43 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Re : Re: Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches In-Reply-To: <6A357D69-E02A-4A1C-BB92-C511F49C8FC7@maine.rr.com> References: <979620.93793.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <200806051307.m55D7wfX062788@podracer.gwi.net> <657E1C7A76944CFEAE1C29D733765487@alain> <6A357D69-E02A-4A1C-BB92-C511F49C8FC7@maine.rr.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080606/52666aa0/attachment.html From dgwine at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 09:30:06 2008 From: dgwine at gmail.com (Dave Godfrey) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 06:30:06 -0700 Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches In-Reply-To: <000c01c8c7c3$b3ac68f0$1b053ad0$@ca> References: <979620.93793.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <200806051307.m55D7wfX062788@podracer.gwi.net> <657E1C7A76944CFEAE1C29D733765487@alain> <6A357D69-E02A-4A1C-BB92-C511F49C8FC7@maine.rr.com> <000c01c8c7c3$b3ac68f0$1b053ad0$@ca> Message-ID: Burgandy was shocked some decades ago when a soil expert said "there was more life in the soils of the Sahara than in Burgundian vineyards." Grapes aren't strawberries; their natural home is up in trees and their roots will go down 50 feet if they can. But they get lots of nutrients from the top foot or so. Therefore, one can treat a rich crop of "weeds" in the vineyard as sign of good soil life--at least on the surface. What I try to do is get that "rich zone" to entend down as deeply as possible. Therefore, no herbicides--all of which kill and damage indiscriminately. The useful alternative I have found is to go back to the older methods of Burgundy and Bordeaux and plough (or rototill or harrow) with enough regularity to enrich your soils. Cold climate Europe traditionally mounded up rows in the fall and unmounded them in the spring. I have green manured for a more rapid specific enrichment in trouble spots, but in general any mixed crop of "unwanted greens" does just as well in terms of production of a mass of potential nutrients. There are dozens of good books on how to build up the intrinsic richness of your soil. This strategy means no heavy cedar bark mulches and definitely no plastic--both of which build poverty rather than richness in the soil. If you don't like your current mix of "weeds" then winter rye is a good choice (in certain climates) to reduce diversity and seeding with clovers is a good way to produce a mowable cover that helps keep your balance of natural nutrients where it should be. For fields with lots of clay, a year or two of mangles before planting produced an enormous mass of matter and the root penetration is far better preparation than the "bulldozer plough" which is recommended here in BC. One traditional measure of soil richness is number of earthworms per cubic foot; definitely an incomplete measure, but a good quick indicator. Among my preferred weeds for enrichment are: stinging nettle---great producer of early mass of green in spring and easily mowe dock--good green mass and a root that's good for increasing aeration down deep broom--used selectively in very heavy clays; prune a plant back to the ground with lopers every year or so to keep new growth out of the canopy and you'll force a deep root down to open up a path to lower soil levels St. John's Wort--in moderation; definitely increases the micro fauna mustard--at least with our warm winters provides pleasant colour in the winter horsetail--works well against Canada thistle in sandy soils Every climate and soil mixture needs its own formula for beneficial weeds. Dave Godfrey GB Vineyards Vancouver Island On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 3:54 AM, Glenda Baker wrote: > It doesn't matter what is used here, the weeds grow through it, any > openings > in the fabric for the vines sprout weeds, stones and rocks on top of black > fabric don't stop the weeds. Even 4-6 inches of wood chips/mulch don't > work. > > > I can't use herbicides so I've been thinking of using a very short > aggressive cover bamboo, it gets mowed once each spring, anyone ever tried > something like that? > > Glenda in Newfoundland > > -----Original Message----- > From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com > [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Steve Melchiskey > Sent: June 5, 2008 9:12 PM > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches > > I've used the woven black mulch for a full 3 years now.....no > problems except those identified by Alain. The other issue is that > the behind the tractor mower doesn't get near enough to the mulch > line, so there is a 4 inch row of weeds I have to weed whack, and > deal with or they get very, very high. I don't use round up, but am > tempted (too bad I grow organic). It actually has been the best thing > I did for my vineyard and my back. I highly recommend it...... > > I have also been thinking of pulling up the mulch and planting a low, > dwarf grass where the mulch was.....some way of using the bare ground > as a transition point. Haven't figured this out yet. Need an > aggressive growing, dwarf grass...... > > best, > steve > maine coast vineyards > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > -- Dave Godfrey Godfrey Brownell Vineyards Glenora, BC, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080606/9d49c972/attachment.html From dolores_solutions at yahoo.ca Fri Jun 6 10:42:12 2008 From: dolores_solutions at yahoo.ca (Dolores Smith) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 07:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <974774.16113.qm@web56210.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Thank you, Dave, this is excellent info.    I presume you hoe the immediate 2 to 3 feet of the actual vine row itself and plant the beneficial weeks/plants in between the rows?   Dolores Smith Erin, ON --- On Fri, 6/6/08, Dave Godfrey <dgwine at gmail.com> wrote: From: Dave Godfrey <dgwine at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Received: Friday, June 6, 2008, 9:30 AM Burgandy was shocked some decades ago when a soil expert said "there was more life in the soils of the Sahara than in Burgundian vineyards." Grapes aren't strawberries; their natural home is up in trees and their roots will go down 50 feet if they can. But they get lots of nutrients from the top foot or so.   Therefore, one can treat a rich crop of "weeds" in the vineyard as sign of good soil life--at least on the surface. What I try to do is get that "rich zone" to entend down as deeply as possible. Therefore, no herbicides--all of which kill and damage indiscriminately.   The useful alternative I have found is to go back to the older methods of Burgundy and Bordeaux and plough (or rototill or harrow) with enough regularity to enrich your soils. Cold climate Europe traditionally mounded up rows in the fall and unmounded them in the spring. I have green manured for a more rapid specific enrichment in trouble spots, but in general any mixed crop of "unwanted greens" does just as well in terms of production of a mass of potential nutrients. There are dozens of good books on how to build up the intrinsic richness of your soil.   This strategy means no heavy cedar bark mulches and definitely no plastic--both of which build poverty rather than richness in the soil. If you don't like your current mix of "weeds" then winter rye is a good choice (in certain climates) to reduce diversity and seeding with clovers is a good way to produce a mowable cover that helps keep your balance of natural nutrients where it should be. For fields with lots of clay, a year or two of mangles before planting produced an enormous mass of matter and the root penetration is far better preparation than the "bulldozer plough" which is recommended here in BC. One traditional measure of soil richness is number of earthworms per cubic foot; definitely an incomplete measure, but a good quick indicator.   Among my preferred weeds for enrichment are: stinging nettle---great producer of early mass of green in spring and easily mowe dock--good green mass and a root that's good for increasing aeration down deep broom--used selectively in very heavy clays; prune a plant  back to the ground with lopers every year or so to keep new growth out of the canopy  and you'll force a deep root down to open up a path to lower soil levels St. John's Wort--in moderation; definitely increases the micro fauna mustard--at least with our warm winters provides pleasant colour in the winter horsetail--works well against Canada thistle in sandy soils   Every climate and soil mixture needs its own formula for beneficial weeds.   Dave Godfrey GB Vineyards Vancouver Island On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 3:54 AM, Glenda Baker <glenda at dccw.ca> wrote: It doesn't matter what is used here, the weeds grow through it, any openings in the fabric for the vines sprout weeds, stones and rocks on top of black fabric don't stop the weeds. Even 4-6 inches of wood chips/mulch don't work. I can't use herbicides so I've been thinking of using a very short aggressive cover bamboo, it gets mowed once each spring, anyone ever tried something like that? Glenda in Newfoundland -----Original Message----- From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Steve Melchiskey Sent: June 5, 2008 9:12 PM To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches I've used the woven black mulch for a full 3 years now.....no problems except those identified by Alain. The other issue is that the behind the tractor mower doesn't get near enough to the mulch line, so there is a 4 inch row of weeds I have to weed whack, and deal with or they get very, very high. I don't use round up, but am tempted (too bad I grow organic). It actually has been the best thing I did for my vineyard and my back. I highly recommend it...... I have also been thinking of pulling up the mulch and planting a low, dwarf grass where the mulch was.....some way of using the bare ground as a transition point. Haven't figured this out yet. Need an aggressive growing, dwarf grass...... best, steve maine coast vineyards _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -- Dave Godfrey Godfrey Brownell Vineyards Glenora, BC, Canada _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080606/3531e51f/attachment.html From neil at coffinridge.ca Sun Jun 8 20:49:07 2008 From: neil at coffinridge.ca (Neil) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 20:49:07 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. In-Reply-To: <00c501c8c5dd$49ba75a0$df24cdd1@mycomputer> References: <310244.52563.qm@web32101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00c501c8c5dd$49ba75a0$df24cdd1@mycomputer> Message-ID: <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F003F48EAA@hosted4.myexchange.ad> What about the blue signs? We were quite lucky and got ours last week after ordering them about two months ago. I remember Irwin Smith of Ocala saying at a seminar a few years that they are the second most effective advertising after word of mouth. Neil Coffin Ridge ________________________________ From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Phil Ryan Sent: June 3, 2008 20:53 To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. Hi Maurice; The signs are a big problem for us. We are off the main road, and I would like to have signs at each of 4 roads that lead to us. Phil Ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: melissa lounsbury To: Growing Wine in Cold Climates Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:13 PM Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: melissa lounsbury To: Larry Paterson Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 8:00:11 AM Subject: Road side signs. I see on the news that the government wants to stop roadside signs. I was wondering if that means all signs like wine an grape growers? They showed some of the signs in Norfork county an they where back off the road. Maybe because we are getting so many signs on the roads that people are becomes distracted from what they should be doing. I know some places you have to almost pull into traffic to see what is coming I wonder how this will effect the wine industry as how will people driving through find you unless they have a map. Maurice Lounsbury. ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080608/a6817798/attachment.html From gt.hansson at gmail.com Sun Jun 8 21:55:07 2008 From: gt.hansson at gmail.com (Gerth Hansson) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 21:55:07 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches In-Reply-To: References: <979620.93793.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <200806051307.m55D7wfX062788@podracer.gwi.net> <657E1C7A76944CFEAE1C29D733765487@alain> <6A357D69-E02A-4A1C-BB92-C511F49C8FC7@maine.rr.com> <000c01c8c7c3$b3ac68f0$1b053ad0$@ca> Message-ID: <3416c6840806081855s6416962cgb32bec5389cb8668@mail.gmail.com> Dave, Do you have a source for St Johns Wort seeds? /gth On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 9:30 AM, Dave Godfrey wrote: > Burgandy was shocked some decades ago when a soil expert said "there was > more life in the soils of the Sahara than in Burgundian vineyards." Grapes > aren't strawberries; their natural home is up in trees and their roots will > go down 50 feet if they can. But they get lots of nutrients from the top > foot or so. > > Therefore, one can treat a rich crop of "weeds" in the vineyard as sign of > good soil life--at least on the surface. What I try to do is get that "rich > zone" to entend down as deeply as possible. Therefore, no herbicides--all of > which kill and damage indiscriminately. > > The useful alternative I have found is to go back to the older methods of > Burgundy and Bordeaux and plough (or rototill or harrow) with enough > regularity to enrich your soils. Cold climate Europe traditionally mounded > up rows in the fall and unmounded them in the spring. I have green manured > for a more rapid specific enrichment in trouble spots, but in general any > mixed crop of "unwanted greens" does just as well in terms of production of > a mass of potential nutrients. There are dozens of good books on how to > build up the intrinsic richness of your soil. > > This strategy means no heavy cedar bark mulches and definitely no > plastic--both of which build poverty rather than richness in the soil. If > you don't like your current mix of "weeds" then winter rye is a good choice > (in certain climates) to reduce diversity and seeding with clovers is a good > way to produce a mowable cover that helps keep your balance of natural > nutrients where it should be. For fields with lots of clay, a year or two of > mangles before planting produced an enormous mass of matter and the root > penetration is far better preparation than the "bulldozer plough" which is > recommended here in BC. One traditional measure of soil richness is number > of earthworms per cubic foot; definitely an incomplete measure, but a good > quick indicator. > > Among my preferred weeds for enrichment are: > stinging nettle---great producer of early mass of green in spring and > easily mowe > dock--good green mass and a root that's good for increasing aeration down > deep > broom--used selectively in very heavy clays; prune a plant back to the > ground with lopers every year or so to keep new growth out of the canopy > and you'll force a deep root down to open up a path to lower soil levels > St. John's Wort--in moderation; definitely increases the micro fauna > mustard--at least with our warm winters provides pleasant colour in the > winter > horsetail--works well against Canada thistle in sandy soils > > Every climate and soil mixture needs its own formula for beneficial weeds. > > Dave Godfrey > GB Vineyards > Vancouver Island > On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 3:54 AM, Glenda Baker wrote: > >> It doesn't matter what is used here, the weeds grow through it, any >> openings >> in the fabric for the vines sprout weeds, stones and rocks on top of black >> fabric don't stop the weeds. Even 4-6 inches of wood chips/mulch don't >> work. >> >> >> I can't use herbicides so I've been thinking of using a very short >> aggressive cover bamboo, it gets mowed once each spring, anyone ever tried >> something like that? >> >> Glenda in Newfoundland >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com >> [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Steve Melchiskey >> Sent: June 5, 2008 9:12 PM >> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches >> >> I've used the woven black mulch for a full 3 years now.....no >> problems except those identified by Alain. The other issue is that >> the behind the tractor mower doesn't get near enough to the mulch >> line, so there is a 4 inch row of weeds I have to weed whack, and >> deal with or they get very, very high. I don't use round up, but am >> tempted (too bad I grow organic). It actually has been the best thing >> I did for my vineyard and my back. I highly recommend it...... >> >> I have also been thinking of pulling up the mulch and planting a low, >> dwarf grass where the mulch was.....some way of using the bare ground >> as a transition point. Haven't figured this out yet. Need an >> aggressive growing, dwarf grass...... >> >> best, >> steve >> maine coast vineyards >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Growwine mailing list >> Growwine at littlefatwino.com >> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine >> > > > > -- > Dave Godfrey > Godfrey Brownell Vineyards > Glenora, BC, Canada > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080608/ff548495/attachment-0001.html From enya at northernfcu.net Sun Jun 8 22:34:04 2008 From: enya at northernfcu.net (Duane) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 22:34:04 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches References: <979620.93793.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <200806051307.m55D7wfX062788@podracer.gwi.net> <657E1C7A76944CFEAE1C29D733765487@alain> <6A357D69-E02A-4A1C-BB92-C511F49C8FC7@maine.rr.com> <000c01c8c7c3$b3ac68f0$1b053ad0$@ca> Message-ID: <004201c8c9d9$49172940$08125f45@YOUR5653E30A79> How about weeder Geese? Duane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenda Baker" To: Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 6:54 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches > It doesn't matter what is used here, the weeds grow through it, any > openings > in the fabric for the vines sprout weeds, stones and rocks on top of black > fabric don't stop the weeds. Even 4-6 inches of wood chips/mulch don't > work. > > > I can't use herbicides so I've been thinking of using a very short > aggressive cover bamboo, it gets mowed once each spring, anyone ever tried > something like that? > > Glenda in Newfoundland > > -----Original Message----- > From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com > [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Steve Melchiskey > Sent: June 5, 2008 9:12 PM > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches > > I've used the woven black mulch for a full 3 years now.....no > problems except those identified by Alain. The other issue is that > the behind the tractor mower doesn't get near enough to the mulch > line, so there is a 4 inch row of weeds I have to weed whack, and > deal with or they get very, very high. I don't use round up, but am > tempted (too bad I grow organic). It actually has been the best thing > I did for my vineyard and my back. I highly recommend it...... > > I have also been thinking of pulling up the mulch and planting a low, > dwarf grass where the mulch was.....some way of using the bare ground > as a transition point. Haven't figured this out yet. Need an > aggressive growing, dwarf grass...... > > best, > steve > maine coast vineyards > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca Mon Jun 9 14:29:36 2008 From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 14:29:36 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Flowering in Peterborough and OVA Message-ID: <006201c8ca5e$c7a7d220$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> How far behind season is everyone? I just noticed flowering is beginning on the vidal on the side of my house in Peterborough, and it is behind the last few years for sure. http://littlefatwino.com/temp1.jpg and http://littlefatwino.com/temp2.jpg are pictures of the vidal on the south side of my house, http://littlefatwino.com/temp3.jpg and http://littlefatwino.com/temp4.jpg are pictures of the delisle on the north side of the house. The vineyard at Humphreys (where the sparkling 2006 Louise Swenson just took a Silver medal at the Amateur Winemakers of Ontario competition) is behind season even more, with flowering there just a glint in my eye at this point. On another note, the Ontario Viniculture Association has now reached 30 winery members, not to speak of the other members - including professional wine writers - who have joined. I would be more than happy to call any of the small Ontario wineries listening in to growwine to talk about OVA. The list of members is online at http://littlefatwino.com/ova.html (OVA membership is all of $25 per year and all are welcome) Lardy Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080609/a3238f4b/attachment.html From ryan.daum at gmail.com Mon Jun 9 14:38:50 2008 From: ryan.daum at gmail.com (Ryan) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 14:38:50 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Flowering in Peterborough and OVA In-Reply-To: <006201c8ca5e$c7a7d220$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> References: <006201c8ca5e$c7a7d220$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Message-ID: <5e5a8c000806091138l1dd483a9i81eaa5d11c726b28@mail.gmail.com> Larry, I'm at about the stage for flowering here in 416, although everything (two riparia, 1 de chaunac, 1 geisenheim 318, 1 foch, and 1 cab franc) budded out really early for me (and almost got destroyed in frost). Flowers not mature and out yet, just the little cap, no anthers, etc. but probably will be in the next week. Ryan On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Larry Paterson wrote: > How far behind season is everyone? I just noticed flowering is beginning > on the vidal on the side of my house in Peterborough, and it is behind the > last few years for sure. > > http://littlefatwino.com/temp1.jpg and http://littlefatwino.com/temp2.jpg > are pictures of the vidal on the south side of my house, > http://littlefatwino.com/temp3.jpg and http://littlefatwino.com/temp4.jpg > are pictures of the delisle on the north side of the house. > > The vineyard at Humphreys (where the sparkling 2006 Louise Swenson just > took a Silver medal at the Amateur Winemakers of Ontario competition) is > behind season even more, with flowering there just a glint in my eye at this > point. > > On another note, the Ontario Viniculture Association has now reached 30 > winery members, not to speak of the other members - including professional > wine writers - who have joined. I would be more than happy to call any of > the small Ontario wineries listening in to growwine to talk about OVA. The > list of members is online at http://littlefatwino.com/ova.html > > (OVA membership is all of $25 per year and all are welcome) > > Lardy > > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc > (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) > > http://www.littlefatwino.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080609/6499bdf9/attachment.html From pabls at yahoo.com Mon Jun 9 15:00:17 2008 From: pabls at yahoo.com (Paul Bulas) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:00:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Flowering in Peterborough and OVA Message-ID: <48190.99910.qm@web56809.mail.re3.yahoo.com> My Concord and Niagara are at the same stage as Ryan's vines.? Flowers not yet open. ----- Original Message ---- From: Ryan To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Monday, June 9, 2008 2:38:50 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Flowering in Peterborough and OVA Larry, I'm at about the stage for flowering here in 416, although everything (two riparia, 1 de chaunac, 1 geisenheim 318, 1 foch, and 1 cab franc) budded out really early for me (and almost got destroyed in frost). Flowers not mature and out yet, just the little cap, no anthers, etc. but probably will be in the next week. Ryan On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Larry Paterson wrote: How far behind season is everyone?? I just noticed flowering is beginning on the vidal on the side of my house in Peterborough, and it is behind the last few years for sure. ? http://littlefatwino.com/temp1.jpg? and http://littlefatwino.com/temp2.jpg? are?pictures of the?vidal on the south side of my house,?? http://littlefatwino.com/temp3.jpg?and http://littlefatwino.com/temp4.jpg? are pictures of the delisle on the north side of the house. ? The vineyard at Humphreys (where the sparkling 2006 Louise Swenson just took a Silver medal at the Amateur Winemakers of Ontario?competition) is behind season even more, with flowering there just a glint in my eye at this point. ? On another note, the Ontario Viniculture Association has now reached 30 winery members, not to speak of the other members - including professional wine writers - who have joined.? I would be more than happy to call any of the small Ontario wineries listening in to growwine to talk about OVA.? The list of members is online at http://littlefatwino.com/ova.html ? (OVA membership is all of $25 per year and all are welcome) ? Lardy ? Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) ? http://www.littlefatwino.com/ ? ? _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080609/ade42fcc/attachment.html From littlefatwino at trytel.net Mon Jun 9 17:43:26 2008 From: littlefatwino at trytel.net (Larry Paterson) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 17:43:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Growwine] An article from globeandmail.com Message-ID: <13284658.1213047806594.JavaMail.news@chicodeb4> Larry Paterson (littlefatwino at trytel.net) thought you would be interested in the following article from globeandmail.com, Canada's leading source for online news: "GTA's strawberry fields are not forever" The strawberries are coming. This may not seem like news - after all, grocery stores have been filled with gargantuan green-tipped California berries for months now. But please don't confuse those pulpy giants with the real thing. A real, ripe Ontario strawberry is so lush you can crush it between your tongue and palate, no teeth required. Note from Larry Paterson: We need a lot more like this +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ Get the news delivered to your inbox. Sign up for our daily News Update: From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Mon Jun 9 18:43:19 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. Message-ID: <688156.46859.qm@web32106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I see by the News at? Six that the Government has changed its mind on Roadside sighs an have OKd the Idea.? Maurice ----- Original Message ---- From: Neil To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Sunday, June 8, 2008 8:49:07 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. What about the blue signs? We were quite lucky and got ours last week after ordering them about two months ago. I remember Irwin Smith of Ocala saying at a seminar a few years that they are the second most effective advertising after word of mouth. ? Neil Coffin Ridge ________________________________ From:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Phil Ryan Sent: June 3, 2008 20:53 To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. ? Hi Maurice; The signs are a big problem for us. We are off the main road, and I would like to have signs at each of 4 roads that lead to us. Phil Ryan ----- Original Message ----- From:melissa lounsbury To:Growing Wine in Cold Climates Sent:Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:13 PM Subject:[Growwine] Fw: Road side signs. ? ? ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: melissa lounsbury To: Larry Paterson Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 8:00:11 AM Subject: Road side signs. I see on the news that the government wants to stop roadside signs. I was wondering if that means all signs like wine an grape growers? They showed some of the signs in Norfork county an they where back off the road. Maybe because we are getting so many signs on the roads that people are becomes distracted from what they should be doing. I know some places you have to almost pull into traffic to see what is coming I wonder how this will effect the wine industry as how will people driving through find you unless they have a map.? Maurice Lounsbury. ? ? ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080609/96a1f7e3/attachment.html From dbriden at magma.ca Mon Jun 9 23:02:35 2008 From: dbriden at magma.ca (Doug Briden) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 23:02:35 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Planting Parties, Plastic mulch and local food Message-ID: <.1213066955@magma.ca> BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; } Delores et al, we completed our third anual planting party this weekend. Although we only had 1400 vines to plant this year I prepared the rows in raised bed plastic mulch with drip irrigation. Unfortunately I didn't have quite enough space for all the vines as this particular field is a little small so we only planted 1300 vines at the party which took 1 hour and 2 minutes for all 1300 including wooden end posts (one end) for the 16 rows. The planting was no slower in the plastic mulch than it was in the tilled rows we did last year where we did 1800 vines in 1 hour 25 minutes. Planting parties work ! We also each year have made a release to the local paper distributions and we had no less than 3 represented this year. If anyone is interested I'll post links to any articles printed. Our theme for this years party was everything local. We served foods grown in the Pontiac on neighbouring farms, Elk burgers, Lamb burgers, Elk/Pork Sausages, local greens for salads and greenhouse tomatoes and cucumbers. We did have a box of not-so-local hot dogs for fussy eaters and kids. Wines were local to the Ottawa area, Chesterville, Navan, Aylmer and some from the Eastern townships of Quebec. We provided only Quebec micro brewery beer as well to those whose palates needed a rest from all the wines. All in all a great day and everyone has signed up for next years planting and as well for any harvest parties. There was one noticable absence from the day the Famous Fume who had to tend to some vines in Montebello but that's okay I drank his share of the wine. People were very much interested in the foods and the wines and where the can find them and they thoroughly enjoyed these wines all of which were cold climate Swenson and Minnesota grapes. Cheers, Doug. Luskville (Pontiac), Quebec On Sun 08/06/08 22:34 , "Duane" enya at northernfcu.net sent: How about weeder Geese? Duane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenda Baker" To: Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 6:54 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches > It doesn't matter what is used here, the weeds grow through it, any > openings > in the fabric for the vines sprout weeds, stones and rocks on top of black > fabric don't stop the weeds. Even 4-6 inches of wood chips/mulch don't > work. > > > I can't use herbicides so I've been thinking of using a very short > aggressive cover bamboo, it gets mowed once each spring, anyone ever tried > something like that? > > Glenda in Newfoundland > > -----Original Message----- > From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [3] > [growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [4]] On Behalf Of Steve Melchiskey > Sent: June 5, 2008 9:12 PM > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com [5] > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Plastic mulch, Wavelength selective mulches > > I've used the woven black mulch for a full 3 years now.....no > problems except those identified by Alain. The other issue is that > the behind the tractor mower doesn't get near enough to the mulch > line, so there is a 4 inch row of weeds I have to weed whack, and > deal with or they get very, very high. I don't use round up, but am > tempted (too bad I grow organic). It actually has been the best thing > I did for my vineyard and my back. I highly recommend it...... > > I have also been thinking of pulling up the mulch and planting a low, > dwarf grass where the mulch was.....some way of using the bare ground > as a transition point. Haven't figured this out yet. Need an > aggressive growing, dwarf grass...... > > best, > steve > maine coast vineyards > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com [6] > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine [7] _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com [8] http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine [9] Links: ------ [1] mailto:glenda at dccw.ca [2] mailto:growwine at littlefatwino.com [3] mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [4] mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [5] mailto:growwine at littlefatwino.com [6] mailto:Growwine at littlefatwino.com [7] https://webmail.magma.ca/parse.php?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Flists.littlefatwino.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fgrowwine [8] mailto:Growwine at littlefatwino.com [9] http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080609/2aea999a/attachment.html From midmp at abacom.com Tue Jun 10 12:13:29 2008 From: midmp at abacom.com (midmp@abacom.com) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:13:29 EDT Subject: [Growwine] News about (former ?) growiner Denis Leduc up in the Gaspe Message-ID: <200806101613.m5AGDTG09862@corpo.abacom.com> Hi ! was at the quebec city farmers' market this past week-end. Former (I believe) growiner Denis Leduc has a kiosk there runned by a friend, selling wine from Leduc's Gaspe peninsula/Baie des Chaleurs winery. Who thought we would have wineries upthere! A red and a rosé port were offered.Next time I'm in Quebec city sightseeing, I'll plan on having a backpack to get some. martin Sherbrooke, QC PS really hot 'round here. wouldn't be surprised to see DM at/near flowering when I go to wack some weeds this week-end _____________________________________________ Envoyé via / Sent via Les Services Internet ABACOM inc. http://www.abacom.com/ Expéditeur / Sender: 2