[Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside of DVA

Mon Jun 23 12:57:14 EDT 2008

It all brings home the fact that a large part of our battle remains addressing the oft-unspoken elements of our contemporary culture that retain that "prohibitionist hangover" - its tentacles obviously have infiltrated the regulatory culture as far as alcohol is concerned.
It's time for a change; time for a move away from those old, failed ways of thinking that killed off so much innovation in the wine scene both here and in the U.S.  Question is, how to go about going that?

----- Original Message ----
From: Ryan <ryan.daum at gmail.com>
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 12:50:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside of DVA

The 5 acre # seems to be a magic number elsewhere, too; Alberta's fruit winery regulations, which seem upon first reading to be the most vintner friendly in the country from a taxation and red tape point of view also require you to have 5 acres of your own fruit planted before permitting production.  They also have minimum volume requirements of several thousand cases.

It's just the same stupid prohibitionist mentality this province has had in some form for a hundred years, except it also fills the pockets of politicians, C-levels at the LCBO, and their golf buddies at Constellation, etc.. Did anybody catch the terrible journalism that surrounded the recent bust of the Portugese illegal wine manufacture here in Toronto?  It was like Toronto reverted to some Orangeman mentality from the 40s -- ... those crazy Latin immigrants and their wine!  I can't find the Toronto Star article now, but this happened about two months ago, they busted some poor suckers making cheap wine (from important grapes unfortunately) and selling it illegally under the counter at Portugese groceries in downtown Toronto.  The article was full of cheap unresearched bullshit like comments about how the place was "unsanitary" because vats for fermenting were uncovered (that's how you make wines, you idiots), the grapes were covered in spider webs
 (so?), and there was a "cat running free in the warehouse" (I would presume to kill mice, so they don't join the spiders).

Rant rant rant,
Ryan

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Larry Paterson <littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca> wrote:

Garageists are illegal in Ontario (maybe a threat to LCBO record profits?)... speaking as President of the Amateur Winemakers of Canada I must oppose this government position.  There are probably 20 to 30 amateur winemakers in Canada who can make small quantities of superb wine, but cannot enter the market.

If you were to open a restaurant in Ontario under current winery legislation you would be required to have five acres of grazing beef if you wanted to sell hamburgers.  There is some doubt as to whether you would need a further five acres of grain for the buns, or five acres of mustard seed if using mustard.  God help you if you wanted your customers to have relish or ketchup or onions...

Larry Paterson,
President,
Amateur Winemakers of Canada

http://www.littlefatwino.com/awc.html

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Paul Bulas 
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com 
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside of DVA

Why would there even be a minimum?  Is 5 acres deemed to be the minimum acreage from which a profit can be made?  I would have thought that some fellow who even had an acre of fine terroir in some interesting nook along a tourist route should be able to start a garage winery, even if his output is tiny.  What gives?

That rule sounds like economics-based thinking to me, not wine-based thinking.

----- Original Message ----
From: Larry Paterson <littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca>
To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:55:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside of DVA

Steven

the minimum acreage is 5 acres, though I'm not sure of an actual vine or fruit count.  There is a very scary but excellent publication from Ontario Ministry of Food and Rural Affairs called something like Starting a Winery in Ontario.  It is about $40 or so, worth it for sure.

Lardy

Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
(Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)

http://www.littlefatwino.com/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: steven kett 
To: GrowWine 
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:02 AM
Subject: [Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside of DVA
I am wondering what the is acreage necessary for developing an on-site winery outside of a DVA in Ontario? And does that acreage consider the vines per acre ratio (of lets say 625 vines an acre) or the area that the planting covers..?
Thanks Steve

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