[Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside of DVA

Mon Jun 23 13:06:52 EDT 2008

I agree with the substance of your point, but it's not limited to just
alcohol & food.  There's a problem with elite entitlement in Canadian
business and political culture that goes back to the colonial times and the
Family Compact.

Ryan

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Paul Bulas <pabls at yahoo.com> wrote:

> It all brings home the fact that a large part of our battle remains
> addressing the oft-unspoken elements of our contemporary culture that retain
> that "prohibitionist hangover" - its tentacles obviously have infiltrated
> the regulatory culture as far as alcohol is concerned.
>
> It's time for a change; time for a move away from those old, failed ways of
> thinking that killed off so much innovation in the wine scene both here and
> in the U.S.  Question is, how to go about going that?
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Ryan <ryan.daum at gmail.com>
> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 12:50:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside of DVA
>
> The 5 acre # seems to be a magic number elsewhere, too; Alberta's fruit
> winery regulations, which seem upon first reading to be the most vintner
> friendly in the country from a taxation and red tape point of view also
> require you to have 5 acres of your own fruit planted before permitting
> production.  They also have minimum volume requirements of several thousand
> cases.
>
> It's just the same stupid prohibitionist mentality this province has had in
> some form for a hundred years, except it also fills the pockets of
> politicians, C-levels at the LCBO, and their golf buddies at Constellation,
> etc.. Did anybody catch the terrible journalism that surrounded the recent
> bust of the Portugese illegal wine manufacture here in Toronto?  It was like
> Toronto reverted to some Orangeman mentality from the 40s -- ... those crazy
> Latin immigrants and their wine!  I can't find the Toronto Star article now,
> but this happened about two months ago, they busted some poor suckers making
> cheap wine (from important grapes unfortunately) and selling it illegally
> under the counter at Portugese groceries in downtown Toronto.  The article
> was full of cheap unresearched bullshit like comments about how the place
> was "unsanitary" because vats for fermenting were uncovered (that's how you
> make wines, you idiots), the grapes were covered in spider webs (so?), and
> there was a "cat running free in the warehouse" (I would presume to kill
> mice, so they don't join the spiders).
>
> Rant rant rant,
> Ryan
>
> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Larry Paterson <littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca>
> wrote:
>
>>  Garageists are illegal in Ontario (maybe a threat to LCBO record
>> profits?)... speaking as President of the Amateur Winemakers of Canada I
>> must oppose this government position.  There are probably 20 to 30 amateur
>> winemakers in Canada who can make small quantities of superb wine, but
>> cannot enter the market.
>>
>> If you were to open a restaurant in Ontario under current winery
>> legislation you would be required to have five acres of grazing beef if you
>> wanted to sell hamburgers.  There is some doubt as to whether you would need
>> a further five acres of grain for the buns, or five acres of mustard seed if
>> using mustard.  God help you if you wanted your customers to have relish or
>> ketchup or onions...
>>
>> Larry Paterson,
>> President,
>> Amateur Winemakers of Canada
>>
>>
>> http://www.littlefatwino.com/awc.html
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Paul Bulas <pabls at yahoo.com>
>> *To:* growwine at littlefatwino.com
>>   *Sent:* Monday, June 23, 2008 12:15 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside of
>> DVA
>>
>>  Why would there even be a minimum?  Is 5 acres deemed to be the minimum
>> acreage from which a profit can be made?  I would have thought that some
>> fellow who even had an acre of fine terroir in some interesting nook along a
>> tourist route should be able to start a garage winery, even if his output is
>> tiny.  What gives?
>>
>>
>>
>> That rule sounds like economics-based thinking to me, not wine-based
>> thinking.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Larry Paterson <littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca>
>> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
>> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:55:04 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside of
>> DVA
>>
>> Steven
>>
>> the minimum acreage is 5 acres, though I'm not sure of an actual vine or
>> fruit count.  There is a very scary but excellent publication from Ontario
>> Ministry of Food and Rural Affairs called something like Starting a Winery
>> in Ontario.  It is about $40 or so, worth it for sure.
>>
>> Lardy
>>
>> Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
>> (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)
>>
>> http://www.littlefatwino.com/
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- *From:* steven kett <kett_doit at hotmail.com>
>> *To:* GrowWine <growwine at littlefatwino.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 23, 2008 11:02 AM
>> *Subject:* [Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside of DVA
>>
>> I am wondering what the is acreage necessary for developing an on-site
>> winery outside of a DVA in Ontario? And does that acreage consider the vines
>> per acre ratio (of lets say 625 vines an acre) or the area that the planting
>> covers..?
>> Thanks Steve
>>
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