[Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside of DVA

Wed Jun 25 11:01:04 EDT 2008

When you say 4900 litre capacity, does this mean only you have the equipment
to produce 4900 litres (tanks, etc.) or does it mean a 4900l/year minimum
production?

In any case, that's far more reasonable; even at reduced yields, i.e.
35l/hectare, one should be able to meet that minimum.  By my calculation 2
acres at 35hl/hectare gives ~12000 litres.

Ryan

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Dave Godfrey <dgwine at gmail.com> wrote:

> Prohibition definitely is among the root causes. And protective capitalism.
>
> Technically, at least in BC, the concept of a "Cottage" or
> "Farmgate" winery came from those who wanted to start small wineries on
> their own farms but shuddered at the discounts structure of the liquor
> boards. By growing the fruit for your own wine, you were entitled to sell it
> at the farmgate and you were able to avoid all government imposts except
> excise and sales taxes. So you paid the government 15% rather than 65%
> (roughly).
>
> Originally, there were two categories and a production ceiling for each.You
> had to have a minimum acreage and your own winery. The ceiling is gone in BC
> but the other minimum requirements remain (2 acres and 4900 litres of winery
> capacity). You can ship direct to restaurants, individuals and and an LRS.
>
> Oregon and Washington go one step further; if you grow grapes you can have
> another winery process them and you can sell them at your own farmgate.
> Dave Godfrey
> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Ryan <ryan.daum at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The 5 acre # seems to be a magic number elsewhere, too; Alberta's fruit
>> winery regulations, which seem upon first reading to be the most vintner
>> friendly in the country from a taxation and red tape point of view also
>> require you to have 5 acres of your own fruit planted before permitting
>> production.  They also have minimum volume requirements of several thousand
>> cases.
>>
>> It's just the same stupid prohibitionist mentality this province has had
>> in some form for a hundred years, except it also fills the pockets of
>> politicians, C-levels at the LCBO, and their golf buddies at Constellation,
>> etc.. Did anybody catch the terrible journalism that surrounded the recent
>> bust of the Portugese illegal wine manufacture here in Toronto?  It was like
>> Toronto reverted to some Orangeman mentality from the 40s -- ... those crazy
>> Latin immigrants and their wine!  I can't find the Toronto Star article now,
>> but this happened about two months ago, they busted some poor suckers making
>> cheap wine (from important grapes unfortunately) and selling it illegally
>> under the counter at Portugese groceries in downtown Toronto.  The article
>> was full of cheap unresearched bullshit like comments about how the place
>> was "unsanitary" because vats for fermenting were uncovered (that's how you
>> make wines, you idiots), the grapes were covered in spider webs (so?), and
>> there was a "cat running free in the warehouse" (I would presume to kill
>> mice, so they don't join the spiders).
>>
>> Rant rant rant,
>> Ryan
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Larry Paterson <
>> littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>  Garageists are illegal in Ontario (maybe a threat to LCBO record
>>> profits?)... speaking as President of the Amateur Winemakers of Canada I
>>> must oppose this government position.  There are probably 20 to 30 amateur
>>> winemakers in Canada who can make small quantities of superb wine, but
>>> cannot enter the market.
>>>
>>> If you were to open a restaurant in Ontario under current winery
>>> legislation you would be required to have five acres of grazing beef if you
>>> wanted to sell hamburgers.  There is some doubt as to whether you would need
>>> a further five acres of grain for the buns, or five acres of mustard seed if
>>> using mustard.  God help you if you wanted your customers to have relish or
>>> ketchup or onions...
>>>
>>> Larry Paterson,
>>> President,
>>> Amateur Winemakers of Canada
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.littlefatwino.com/awc.html
>>>
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Paul Bulas <pabls at yahoo.com>
>>> *To:* growwine at littlefatwino.com
>>>   *Sent:* Monday, June 23, 2008 12:15 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside
>>> of DVA
>>>
>>>  Why would there even be a minimum?  Is 5 acres deemed to be the minimum
>>> acreage from which a profit can be made?  I would have thought that some
>>> fellow who even had an acre of fine terroir in some interesting nook along a
>>> tourist route should be able to start a garage winery, even if his output is
>>> tiny.  What gives?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That rule sounds like economics-based thinking to me, not wine-based
>>> thinking.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Larry Paterson <littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca>
>>> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
>>> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:55:04 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside of
>>> DVA
>>>
>>> Steven
>>>
>>> the minimum acreage is 5 acres, though I'm not sure of an actual vine or
>>> fruit count.  There is a very scary but excellent publication from Ontario
>>> Ministry of Food and Rural Affairs called something like Starting a Winery
>>> in Ontario.  It is about $40 or so, worth it for sure.
>>>
>>> Lardy
>>>
>>> Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
>>> (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)
>>>
>>> http://www.littlefatwino.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- *From:* steven kett <kett_doit at hotmail.com>
>>> *To:* GrowWine <growwine at littlefatwino.com>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, June 23, 2008 11:02 AM
>>> *Subject:* [Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside of
>>> DVA
>>>
>>> I am wondering what the is acreage necessary for developing an on-site
>>> winery outside of a DVA in Ontario? And does that acreage consider the vines
>>> per acre ratio (of lets say 625 vines an acre) or the area that the planting
>>> covers..?
>>> Thanks Steve
>>>
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>>
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>
>
> --
> Dave Godfrey
> Godfrey Brownell Vineyards
> Glenora, BC, Canada
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