[Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside of DVA

Wed Jun 25 11:28:17 EDT 2008

To obtain the initial licence, you need to have your winery inspected and it
must have the equipment "capable of producing" 4,900 litres. As a minimum,
this seems to mean tanks and a pump; since you can order in a bottling line
in a truck.

In the past, they've been somewhat lax on the annual requirement, but it
exists. I guess the logic is, roughly, that two acres at five tons an acre
means (dieally) at least 4,900 litres of wine. You have the right to buy
grapes for cause--ie a bad year. But they currently seem to be cracking down
on people who just seem to never get any production out of their own
vineyard. I'm not sure of the exact phrasing of that part of the regulation.

dave godfrey

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 8:01 AM, Ryan <ryan.daum at gmail.com> wrote:

> When you say 4900 litre capacity, does this mean only you have the
> equipment to produce 4900 litres (tanks, etc.) or does it mean a 4900l/year
> minimum production?
>
> In any case, that's far more reasonable; even at reduced yields, i.e.
> 35l/hectare, one should be able to meet that minimum.  By my calculation 2
> acres at 35hl/hectare gives ~12000 litres.
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Dave Godfrey <dgwine at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Prohibition definitely is among the root causes. And protective
>> capitalism.
>>
>> Technically, at least in BC, the concept of a "Cottage" or
>> "Farmgate" winery came from those who wanted to start small wineries on
>> their own farms but shuddered at the discounts structure of the liquor
>> boards. By growing the fruit for your own wine, you were entitled to sell it
>> at the farmgate and you were able to avoid all government imposts except
>> excise and sales taxes. So you paid the government 15% rather than 65%
>> (roughly).
>>
>> Originally, there were two categories and a production ceiling for
>> each.You had to have a minimum acreage and your own winery. The ceiling is
>> gone in BC but the other minimum requirements remain (2 acres and 4900
>> litres of winery capacity). You can ship direct to restaurants, individuals
>> and and an LRS.
>>
>> Oregon and Washington go one step further; if you grow grapes you can have
>> another winery process them and you can sell them at your own farmgate.
>> Dave Godfrey
>>   On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Ryan <ryan.daum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The 5 acre # seems to be a magic number elsewhere, too; Alberta's fruit
>>> winery regulations, which seem upon first reading to be the most vintner
>>> friendly in the country from a taxation and red tape point of view also
>>> require you to have 5 acres of your own fruit planted before permitting
>>> production.  They also have minimum volume requirements of several thousand
>>> cases.
>>>
>>> It's just the same stupid prohibitionist mentality this province has had
>>> in some form for a hundred years, except it also fills the pockets of
>>> politicians, C-levels at the LCBO, and their golf buddies at Constellation,
>>> etc.. Did anybody catch the terrible journalism that surrounded the recent
>>> bust of the Portugese illegal wine manufacture here in Toronto?  It was like
>>> Toronto reverted to some Orangeman mentality from the 40s -- ... those crazy
>>> Latin immigrants and their wine!  I can't find the Toronto Star article now,
>>> but this happened about two months ago, they busted some poor suckers making
>>> cheap wine (from important grapes unfortunately) and selling it illegally
>>> under the counter at Portugese groceries in downtown Toronto.  The article
>>> was full of cheap unresearched bullshit like comments about how the place
>>> was "unsanitary" because vats for fermenting were uncovered (that's how you
>>> make wines, you idiots), the grapes were covered in spider webs (so?), and
>>> there was a "cat running free in the warehouse" (I would presume to kill
>>> mice, so they don't join the spiders).
>>>
>>> Rant rant rant,
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Larry Paterson <
>>> littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Garageists are illegal in Ontario (maybe a threat to LCBO record
>>>> profits?)... speaking as President of the Amateur Winemakers of Canada I
>>>> must oppose this government position.  There are probably 20 to 30 amateur
>>>> winemakers in Canada who can make small quantities of superb wine, but
>>>> cannot enter the market.
>>>>
>>>> If you were to open a restaurant in Ontario under current winery
>>>> legislation you would be required to have five acres of grazing beef if you
>>>> wanted to sell hamburgers.  There is some doubt as to whether you would need
>>>> a further five acres of grain for the buns, or five acres of mustard seed if
>>>> using mustard.  God help you if you wanted your customers to have relish or
>>>> ketchup or onions...
>>>>
>>>> Larry Paterson,
>>>> President,
>>>> Amateur Winemakers of Canada
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.littlefatwino.com/awc.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Paul Bulas <pabls at yahoo.com>
>>>> *To:* growwine at littlefatwino.com
>>>>   *Sent:* Monday, June 23, 2008 12:15 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside
>>>> of DVA
>>>>
>>>>  Why would there even be a minimum?  Is 5 acres deemed to be the
>>>> minimum acreage from which a profit can be made?  I would have thought that
>>>> some fellow who even had an acre of fine terroir in some interesting nook
>>>> along a tourist route should be able to start a garage winery, even if his
>>>> output is tiny.  What gives?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That rule sounds like economics-based thinking to me, not wine-based
>>>> thinking.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>> From: Larry Paterson <littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca>
>>>> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com
>>>> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:55:04 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside of
>>>> DVA
>>>>
>>>> Steven
>>>>
>>>> the minimum acreage is 5 acres, though I'm not sure of an actual vine or
>>>> fruit count.  There is a very scary but excellent publication from Ontario
>>>> Ministry of Food and Rural Affairs called something like Starting a Winery
>>>> in Ontario.  It is about $40 or so, worth it for sure.
>>>>
>>>> Lardy
>>>>
>>>> Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc
>>>> (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic)
>>>>
>>>> http://www.littlefatwino.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- *From:* steven kett<kett_doit at hotmail.com>
>>>> *To:* GrowWine <growwine at littlefatwino.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, June 23, 2008 11:02 AM
>>>> *Subject:* [Growwine] Acreage necessary for on-site winery outside of
>>>> DVA
>>>>
>>>> I am wondering what the is acreage necessary for developing an on-site
>>>> winery outside of a DVA in Ontario? And does that acreage consider the vines
>>>> per acre ratio (of lets say 625 vines an acre) or the area that the planting
>>>> covers..?
>>>> Thanks Steve
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Dave Godfrey
>> Godfrey Brownell Vineyards
>> Glenora, BC, Canada
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>
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-- 
Dave Godfrey
Godfrey Brownell Vineyards
Glenora, BC, Canada
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