From scott.dolson at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 1 07:40:19 2008 From: scott.dolson at sympatico.ca (Scott Dolson) Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 07:40:19 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Bad news for 20 Bees Winery In-Reply-To: <006101c87b54$6e4b5840$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> References: <006101c87b54$6e4b5840$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Message-ID: <47C94EB3.6030504@sympatico.ca> Perhaps restricted market access vis-a-vis limited LCBO shelf space contributed to their demise...certainly a more tempered business plan would have been prudent. I hope they can work things out with their lenders/investors. I have sampled many of their product line, and have enjoyed them all... Vincor must be silently smirking! hmmm... 300 investors (300 + on Growine); $100,000.00 each...buyout the debt & buyout the 20 Bees...contract the 20 Bees to supply their grapes and carry on as the 20 Bees Winery Inc.... and all the while we keep our secrete weapon ( Larry Paterson) hidden until the deal ins done... then release LFW as our Marketing Guru (& Leader of this group of '300') to take on the LCBO, thus ensuring Free & Unencumbered Access to the market place... success is sure to follow ( No Greek tragedy here!) All joking aside, I sure hope they can work this out...the economy and the markets are arguably stronger given a greater degree of free market access and producer diversity. Scott Larry Paterson wrote: > http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca:80/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=923640_ _ > > very sad indeed... > > Lardy > > Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc > (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) > > http://www.littlefatwino.com/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080301/5fd97c4a/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: scott.dolson.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 344 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080301/5fd97c4a/scott.dolson.vcf From spurge at telusplanet.net Sat Mar 1 11:51:22 2008 From: spurge at telusplanet.net (Dave Spurgeon) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 09:51:22 -0700 Subject: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D Message-ID: I spray 2 4 D over my lawns in the early spring, when the dandelions are starting to come alive, and before my grapevines have any bud swell. I do notice some minor herbicide damage on some vines later on in the season, and have been silently cursing my neighbours, but am starting to wonder if I am the guilty party. How long does it take for 2 4 D to completely disapear from the area. I irrigate the lawns heavily before the vines come alive, and assumed that this would remove any herbicide that remained. Any one have any ideas? I have about 2 acres of grass, and am curious if any other weedkilling method would work. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080301/cd714dcc/attachment.html From baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca Sat Mar 1 11:57:40 2008 From: baileyandtrent2 at yahoo.ca (melissa lounsbury) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 08:57:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D Message-ID: <600669.58767.qm@web32105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This is why many cities are stopping the use of weed an lawn spraying as it has a long lasting effect.It has a build up effect from one spray to another. Maurice Lounsbury. ----- Original Message ---- From: Dave Spurgeon To: Growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:51:22 AM Subject: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D I spray 2 4 D over my lawns in the early spring, when the dandelions are starting to come alive, and before my grapevines have any bud swell. I do notice some minor herbicide damage on some vines later on in the season, and have been silently cursing my neighbours, but am starting to wonder if I am the guilty party. How long does it take for 2 4 D to completely disapear from the area. I irrigate the lawns heavily before the vines come alive, and assumed that this would remove any herbicide that remained. Any one have any ideas? I have about 2 acres of grass, and am curious if any other weedkilling method would work. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080301/67accadb/attachment.html From lonrom at hevanet.com Sat Mar 1 11:59:39 2008 From: lonrom at hevanet.com (Lon J. Rombough) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 08:59:39 -0800 Subject: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One thing that helps is to set your mower high. Dandelions have a much harder time getting started when the grass is tall enough to out compete the seedlings. It should be at least two inches high, if not higher. Do that and you might be able to keep the dandelion population down to the point where spot weeding would be enough. -Lon Rombough Grapes, writing, consulting, my book, The Grape Grower, at http://www.bunchgrapes.com Winner of the Garden Writers Association "Best Talent in Writing" award for 2003. For even more grape lessons, go to http://www.grapeschool.com For all other things grape, http://www.vitisearch.com On Mar 1, 2008, at 8:51 AM, Dave Spurgeon wrote: I spray 2 4 D over my lawns in the early spring, when the dandelions are starting to come alive, and before my grapevines have any bud swell. I do notice some minor herbicide damage on some vines later on in the season, and have been silently cursing my neighbours, but am starting to wonder if I am the guilty party. How long does it take for 2 4 D to completely disapear from the area. I irrigate the lawns heavily before the vines come alive, and assumed that this would remove any herbicide that remained. Any one have any ideas? I have about 2 acres of grass, and am curious if any other weedkilling method would work._______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1552 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080301/a5d6033e/attachment.bin From khoshkiw at hotmail.com Sat Mar 1 13:31:26 2008 From: khoshkiw at hotmail.com (Kathryn Hoshkiw-Tombs) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:31:26 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are you sure that it is herbicide damage? Secondly, I don't have an updated copy but looking in publication 75 (OMAFRA guide to weed control) in the charts on pg 259 - 260 you will see the list of registered products that may be used on grapes. 2,4-D would not be one of these due to phyto-toxicity (most likely). If the two acres of grass is around or to the sides of the grapes perhaps you are spraying on a windy day and only the edges of your grapes have damage? If the entire acreage of grapes are showing damage but you have not sprayed (especially an unregistered product) up and down the rows than I would assume that the damage you are viewing is not herbicide damage at all but something that resembles it. Many nutrient deficiencies/imbalances and insect problems can look like damage from a chemical and vice versa. Kathryn Hoshkiw-Tombs From: lonrom at hevanet.comDate: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 08:59:39 -0800To: growwine at littlefatwino.comSubject: Re: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D One thing that helps is to set your mower high. Dandelions have a much harder time getting started when the grass is tall enough to out compete the seedlings. It should be at least two inches high, if not higher. Do that and you might be able to keep the dandelion population down to the point where spot weeding would be enough.-Lon RomboughGrapes, writing, consulting, my book, The Grape Grower, at http://www.bunchgrapes.com Winner of the Garden Writers Association "Best Talent in Writing" award for 2003. For even more grape lessons, go to http://www.grapeschool.comFor all other things grape, http://www.vitisearch.comOn Mar 1, 2008, at 8:51 AM, Dave Spurgeon wrote:I spray 2 4 D over my lawns in the early spring, when the dandelions are starting to come alive, and before my grapevines have any bud swell. I do notice some minor herbicide damage on some vines later on in the season, and have been silently cursing my neighbours, but am starting to wonder if I am the guilty party. How long does it take for 2 4 D to completely disapear from the area. I irrigate the lawns heavily before the vines come alive, and assumed that this would remove any herbicide that remained. Any one have any ideas? I have about 2 acres of grass, and am curious if any other weedkilling method would work._______________________________________________Growwine mailing listGrowwine at littlefatwino.comhttp://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080301/6ce3e1f9/attachment-0001.html From spurge at telusplanet.net Sat Mar 1 20:02:55 2008 From: spurge at telusplanet.net (Dave Spurgeon) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:02:55 -0700 Subject: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <5EC00E74955D487A90A5596C9EA2C2D3@DavePC> Thanks for your replies. I am fairly sure its herbicide damage, just a few of the leaves have a fan-like appearance, and yes it is on just the outside, windward row that seems to suffer the most. The lawns are separate from my small vineyard, and no spraying occurs within the rows. I will endevour to leave the grass a little higher this year, although I cut mine higher than two inches, probably three. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathryn Hoshkiw-Tombs To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D Are you sure that it is herbicide damage? Secondly, I don't have an updated copy but looking in publication 75 (OMAFRA guide to weed control) in the charts on pg 259 - 260 you will see the list of registered products that may be used on grapes. 2,4-D would not be one of these due to phyto-toxicity (most likely). If the two acres of grass is around or to the sides of the grapes perhaps you are spraying on a windy day and only the edges of your grapes have damage? If the entire acreage of grapes are showing damage but you have not sprayed (especially an unregistered product) up and down the rows than I would assume that the damage you are viewing is not herbicide damage at all but something that resembles it. Many nutrient deficiencies/imbalances and insect problems can look like damage from a chemical and vice versa. Kathryn Hoshkiw-Tombs ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lonrom at hevanet.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 08:59:39 -0800 To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D One thing that helps is to set your mower high. Dandelions have a much harder time getting started when the grass is tall enough to out compete the seedlings. It should be at least two inches high, if not higher. Do that and you might be able to keep the dandelion population down to the point where spot weeding would be enough. -Lon Rombough Grapes, writing, consulting, my book, The Grape Grower, at http://www.bunchgrapes.com Winner of the Garden Writers Association "Best Talent in Writing" award for 2003. For even more grape lessons, go to http://www.grapeschool.com For all other things grape, http://www.vitisearch.com On Mar 1, 2008, at 8:51 AM, Dave Spurgeon wrote: I spray 2 4 D over my lawns in the early spring, when the dandelions are starting to come alive, and before my grapevines have any bud swell. I do notice some minor herbicide damage on some vines later on in the season, and have been silently cursing my neighbours, but am starting to wonder if I am the guilty party. How long does it take for 2 4 D to completely disapear from the area. I irrigate the lawns heavily before the vines come alive, and assumed that this would remove any herbicide that remained. Any one have any ideas? I have about 2 acres of grass, and am curious if any other weedkilling method would work._______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080301/c22ec4e7/attachment.html From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca Sun Mar 2 17:23:24 2008 From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 17:23:24 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] wine tasting in Peterborough Message-ID: <002e01c87cb4$0d632ce0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Hi everyone: anyone in the area of Peterborough on Sunday March 9th is welcome to come in after 4 p.m. and taste what the judges left after our amateur wine competition. there will be about 30 of the 160 entries made from cold-climate varieties, or hybrids grown in non-traditional areas. no need to reserve, just come to 1325 Royal Drive, phone number is 743-4467 if you get lost. Directions are online at: http://littlefatwino.com/1325royal.html rumour has it that certain members of the newly formed Quebec Wine Judges will be here to sharpen their palates... Lardy Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080302/9220f78d/attachment.html From khoshkiw at hotmail.com Sun Mar 2 19:02:53 2008 From: khoshkiw at hotmail.com (Kathryn Hoshkiw-Tombs) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 19:02:53 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D In-Reply-To: <5EC00E74955D487A90A5596C9EA2C2D3@DavePC> References:

<5EC00E74955D487A90A5596C9EA2C2D3@DavePC> Message-ID: Good option. It doesn't take much wind at all, 6km is warning and 10km is don't spray. Check the OMAFRA guide I mentioned for herbicides that are safe and fit your needs. From: spurge at telusplanet.netTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:02:55 -0700Subject: Re: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D Thanks for your replies. I am fairly sure its herbicide damage, just a few of the leaves have a fan-like appearance, and yes it is on just the outside, windward row that seems to suffer the most. The lawns are separate from my small vineyard, and no spraying occurs within the rows. I will endevour to leave the grass a little higher this year, although I cut mine higher than two inches, probably three. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathryn Hoshkiw-Tombs To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D Are you sure that it is herbicide damage? Secondly, I don't have an updated copy but looking in publication 75 (OMAFRA guide to weed control) in the charts on pg 259 - 260 you will see the list of registered products that may be used on grapes. 2,4-D would not be one of these due to phyto-toxicity (most likely). If the two acres of grass is around or to the sides of the grapes perhaps you are spraying on a windy day and only the edges of your grapes have damage? If the entire acreage of grapes are showing damage but you have not sprayed (especially an unregistered product) up and down the rows than I would assume that the damage you are viewing is not herbicide damage at all but something that resembles it. Many nutrient deficiencies/imbalances and insect problems can look like damage from a chemical and vice versa. Kathryn Hoshkiw-Tombs From: lonrom at hevanet.comDate: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 08:59:39 -0800To: growwine at littlefatwino.comSubject: Re: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D One thing that helps is to set your mower high. Dandelions have a much harder time getting started when the grass is tall enough to out compete the seedlings. It should be at least two inches high, if not higher. Do that and you might be able to keep the dandelion population down to the point where spot weeding would be enough.-Lon RomboughGrapes, writing, consulting, my book, The Grape Grower, at http://www.bunchgrapes.com Winner of the Garden Writers Association "Best Talent in Writing" award for 2003. For even more grape lessons, go to http://www.grapeschool.comFor all other things grape, http://www.vitisearch.comOn Mar 1, 2008, at 8:51 AM, Dave Spurgeon wrote:I spray 2 4 D over my lawns in the early spring, when the dandelions are starting to come alive, and before my grapevines have any bud swell. I do notice some minor herbicide damage on some vines later on in the season, and have been silently cursing my neighbours, but am starting to wonder if I am the guilty party. How long does it take for 2 4 D to completely disapear from the area. I irrigate the lawns heavily before the vines come alive, and assumed that this would remove any herbicide that remained. Any one have any ideas? I have about 2 acres of grass, and am curious if any other weedkilling method would work._______________________________________________Growwine mailing listGrowwine at littlefatwino.comhttp://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _______________________________________________Growwine mailing listGrowwine at littlefatwino.comhttp://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080302/23371ec6/attachment.html From hawkschemical at hotmail.com Mon Mar 3 14:39:29 2008 From: hawkschemical at hotmail.com (dylan lid) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:39:29 +0000 Subject: [Growwine] Saskatchewan Wine Makers And Growers Invitation Message-ID: Hello all! My name is Dylan Lidster, I am a wine enthusiast, growwiner and grape grower located just outside of Saskatoon. Brenda Thomsen, another wine enthusiast, and myself are organizing a Saskatchewan Amateur Winemakers & Winegrowers Association. Within this group we will be holding open competitions for amateur winemakers of all types - from grapes to fruits and beers. These competitions will be held at the Saskatchewan Amateur Winemakers & Winegrowers Annual Meeting. The winners of each class will then have their wines entered into the National Amateur Winemakers of Canada Competition. The winners of the national and provincial competitions will take home some prize money and/or some winemaking supplies for their ?Winning Wines.? To gain knowledge and contacts we will also be starting a Saskatchewan Wine Growers discussion forum. This will be great for all growers of fruit who wish to gain information and express knowledge of growing temperamental fruit in the northern climate of Saskatchewan. Currently in Saskatchewan we grow over 25 varieties of grapes, cherries, blueberries, black currents, raspberries and plums and many other fruits and vegetables with intentions of amateur wine production. Sask Wine Growers has the intention of being a informal discussion group aimed at growing the Saskatchewan Fruit and Wine industry all the way from fruit to glass. If you are interested in taking part in the ?Fruit Grower,? discussions please forward some information about yourself such as number of years growing fruit, types of fruit or vegetables, varietals and any other helpful information about yourself. Also include some contact information so I can send you a formal registration and newsletter. As we are just starting! If you have received this and know someone in Saskatchewan who might not be on this list server but may be interested in joining could you please forward this information or their contact information to me and I can send it. Thank you! Dylan Lidster _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080303/131b9328/attachment.html From enya at northernfcu.net Mon Mar 3 22:21:53 2008 From: enya at northernfcu.net (Duane) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 22:21:53 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Saskatchewan Wine Makers And Growers Invitation References: Message-ID: <003701c87da6$e4e6c030$97125f45@YOUR5653E30A79> Dylan i had some questions on the organization could you contact me at enya at northernfcu.net so i can respond offline. Thanks, Duane ----- Original Message ----- From: dylan lid To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 2:39 PM Subject: [Growwine] Saskatchewan Wine Makers And Growers Invitation Hello all! My name is Dylan Lidster, I am a wine enthusiast, growwiner and grape grower located just outside of Saskatoon. Brenda Thomsen, another wine enthusiast, and myself are organizing a Saskatchewan Amateur Winemakers & Winegrowers Association. Within this group we will be holding open competitions for amateur winemakers of all types - from grapes to fruits and beers. These competitions will be held at the Saskatchewan Amateur Winemakers & Winegrowers Annual Meeting. The winners of each class will then have their wines entered into the National Amateur Winemakers of Canada Competition. The winners of the national and provincial competitions will take home some prize money and/or some winemaking supplies for their ?Winning Wines.? To gain knowledge and contacts we will also be starting a Saskatchewan Wine Growers discussion forum. This will be great for all growers of fruit who wish to gain information and express knowledge of growing temperamental fruit in the northern climate of Saskatchewan. Currently in Saskatchewan we grow over 25 varieties of grapes, cherries, blueberries, black currents, raspberries and plums and many other fruits and vegetables with intentions of amateur wine production. Sask Wine Growers has the intention of being a informal discussion group aimed at growing the Saskatchewan Fruit and Wine industry all the way from fruit to glass. If you are interested in taking part in the ?Fruit Grower,? discussions please forward some information about yourself such as number of years growing fruit, types of fruit or vegetables, varietals and any other helpful information about yourself. Also include some contact information so I can send you a formal registration and newsletter. As we are just starting! If you have received this and know someone in Saskatchewan who might not be on this list server but may be interested in joining could you please forward this information or their contact information to me and I can send it. Thank you! Dylan Lidster ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080303/d8c84158/attachment.html From fleurdelis at gwi.net Tue Mar 4 06:54:58 2008 From: fleurdelis at gwi.net (Michele Roberge) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 06:54:58 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Birds Message-ID: <000901c87dee$92f223d0$0e92c3d8@DBNC5061> Greetings! I am planting my first vines this spring. What is your advice for bird control? Should I buy miles of netting? Thanks, Michele -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/e13c4675/attachment.html From khoshkiw at hotmail.com Tue Mar 4 07:03:33 2008 From: khoshkiw at hotmail.com (Kathryn Hoshkiw-Tombs) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 07:03:33 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D In-Reply-To: <5EC00E74955D487A90A5596C9EA2C2D3@DavePC> References:

<5EC00E74955D487A90A5596C9EA2C2D3@DavePC> Message-ID: Forgot to mention the 2,4-D volatitizes, meaning the vapours will even hurt the grapevines. Therefore, you do not want to use it at all. It is one of the worst herbicides to use near grapes. From: spurge at telusplanet.netTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:02:55 -0700Subject: Re: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D Thanks for your replies. I am fairly sure its herbicide damage, just a few of the leaves have a fan-like appearance, and yes it is on just the outside, windward row that seems to suffer the most. The lawns are separate from my small vineyard, and no spraying occurs within the rows. I will endevour to leave the grass a little higher this year, although I cut mine higher than two inches, probably three. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathryn Hoshkiw-Tombs To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D Are you sure that it is herbicide damage? Secondly, I don't have an updated copy but looking in publication 75 (OMAFRA guide to weed control) in the charts on pg 259 - 260 you will see the list of registered products that may be used on grapes. 2,4-D would not be one of these due to phyto-toxicity (most likely). If the two acres of grass is around or to the sides of the grapes perhaps you are spraying on a windy day and only the edges of your grapes have damage? If the entire acreage of grapes are showing damage but you have not sprayed (especially an unregistered product) up and down the rows than I would assume that the damage you are viewing is not herbicide damage at all but something that resembles it. Many nutrient deficiencies/imbalances and insect problems can look like damage from a chemical and vice versa. Kathryn Hoshkiw-Tombs From: lonrom at hevanet.comDate: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 08:59:39 -0800To: growwine at littlefatwino.comSubject: Re: [Growwine] Using 2,4,D One thing that helps is to set your mower high. Dandelions have a much harder time getting started when the grass is tall enough to out compete the seedlings. It should be at least two inches high, if not higher. Do that and you might be able to keep the dandelion population down to the point where spot weeding would be enough.-Lon RomboughGrapes, writing, consulting, my book, The Grape Grower, at http://www.bunchgrapes.com Winner of the Garden Writers Association "Best Talent in Writing" award for 2003. For even more grape lessons, go to http://www.grapeschool.comFor all other things grape, http://www.vitisearch.comOn Mar 1, 2008, at 8:51 AM, Dave Spurgeon wrote:I spray 2 4 D over my lawns in the early spring, when the dandelions are starting to come alive, and before my grapevines have any bud swell. I do notice some minor herbicide damage on some vines later on in the season, and have been silently cursing my neighbours, but am starting to wonder if I am the guilty party. How long does it take for 2 4 D to completely disapear from the area. I irrigate the lawns heavily before the vines come alive, and assumed that this would remove any herbicide that remained. Any one have any ideas? I have about 2 acres of grass, and am curious if any other weedkilling method would work._______________________________________________Growwine mailing listGrowwine at littlefatwino.comhttp://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _______________________________________________Growwine mailing listGrowwine at littlefatwino.comhttp://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/1d579cf7/attachment.html From petersalonius at hotmail.com Tue Mar 4 07:04:40 2008 From: petersalonius at hotmail.com (peter salonius) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 08:04:40 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Birds In-Reply-To: <000901c87dee$92f223d0$0e92c3d8@DBNC5061> References: <000901c87dee$92f223d0$0e92c3d8@DBNC5061> Message-ID: If you are planting NEW vines this year, you will not have any substantial crop for a couple of years -- so unless you think the rising price of oil will increase the price of netting -- perhaps you should would wait. Also recorded bird distress calls are quite effective when combined with LARGE EYE balloons, vibrating tapes and even old CDs hung up where they will rotate freely and reflect light randomly. Peter Salonius http://www.littlefatwino.com/peterslist.html From: fleurdelis at gwi.netTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 06:54:58 -0500Subject: [Growwine] Birds Greetings! I am planting my first vines this spring. What is your advice for bird control? Should I buy miles of netting? Thanks, Michele _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/f7958838/attachment.html From khoshkiw at hotmail.com Tue Mar 4 07:06:24 2008 From: khoshkiw at hotmail.com (Kathryn Hoshkiw-Tombs) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 07:06:24 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Birds In-Reply-To: <000901c87dee$92f223d0$0e92c3d8@DBNC5061> References: <000901c87dee$92f223d0$0e92c3d8@DBNC5061> Message-ID: I would assume that you would not have any fruit for several years. Generally grapes do not produce (or should not produce, cut them off) for approximately two years. You don't need to worry until then. Bird netting works well, as do fake eagles that fly like a kite. Most growers use a combination of both. Kathy Hoshkiw-Tombs Viticulture and Wine Making Technician Grape and Tender Fruit, Hort and Berry Crops Consultant. From: fleurdelis at gwi.netTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 06:54:58 -0500Subject: [Growwine] Birds Greetings! I am planting my first vines this spring. What is your advice for bird control? Should I buy miles of netting? Thanks, Michele _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/1fddc2bd/attachment.html From khoshkiw at hotmail.com Tue Mar 4 07:08:21 2008 From: khoshkiw at hotmail.com (Kathryn Hoshkiw-Tombs) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 07:08:21 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Birds In-Reply-To: References: <000901c87dee$92f223d0$0e92c3d8@DBNC5061> Message-ID: Yes, you should be dropping the crop on purpose for two seasons. From: petersalonius at hotmail.comTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 08:04:40 -0400Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds If you are planting NEW vines this year, you will not have any substantial crop for acouple of years -- so unless you think the rising price of oil will increase the price of netting -- perhaps you should would wait. Also recorded bird distress calls are quite effective when combined with LARGE EYE balloons, vibrating tapes and even old CDs hung up where they will rotate freely and reflect light randomly. Peter Salonius http://www.littlefatwino.com/peterslist.html From: fleurdelis at gwi.netTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 06:54:58 -0500Subject: [Growwine] Birds Greetings! I am planting my first vines this spring. What is your advice for bird control? Should I buy miles of netting? Thanks, Michele _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/424b6bb2/attachment.html From canadavintage at hotmail.com Tue Mar 4 12:05:12 2008 From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (CanadaVintage) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:05:12 -0800 Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. References: <002e01c87cb4$0d632ce0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Message-ID: Gents, I have a dilemma to solve: A red wine of mine is showing a TA of 7.4 g/l, malic acid @ 330 mg/l, and Tartaric @ 994.36 mg/l. pH is 3.2. How do I drop my TA down to say 5.4 g/l without having to wait months to bottle due to precipation crystals. Currently, my tartaric is quite stable. Also, the Malic conversion is partial and I am worried about instability in bottle if I do not use double salt? Should I hit it with free S02 at 40ppm and Lysozyme? Residual sugar at .17% so I cannot add sugar to mask acid bite. Options? KHCO3? CaCO3? or Double Salt? What about the newer method of Extended Double Salt Deacidification? thank-you Anthony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/8c6171e4/attachment.html From terry.rayner at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 4 09:28:38 2008 From: terry.rayner at sympatico.ca (Terry Rayner) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 09:28:38 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Anthony, a couple of questions. Is your TA measurement of 7.4g/l as sulphuric or tartaric and how did you measure the malic to tartaric ratio. Are you not going to let the malolactic conversion go to completion. Terry >From: "CanadaVintage" >Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >To: >Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:05:12 -0800 > >Gents, >I have a dilemma to solve: >A red wine of mine is showing a TA of 7.4 g/l, malic acid @ 330 mg/l, and >Tartaric @ 994.36 mg/l. >pH is 3.2. > >How do I drop my TA down to say 5.4 g/l without having to wait months to >bottle due to precipation crystals. Currently, my tartaric is quite stable. > >Also, the Malic conversion is partial and I am worried about instability in >bottle if I do not use double salt? >Should I hit it with free S02 at 40ppm and Lysozyme? > >Residual sugar at .17% so I cannot add sugar to mask acid bite. > >Options? >KHCO3? >CaCO3? >or Double Salt? >What about the newer method of Extended Double Salt Deacidification? > > >thank-you >Anthony > > >_______________________________________________ >Growwine mailing list >Growwine at littlefatwino.com >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From neil at coffinridge.ca Tue Mar 4 09:32:14 2008 From: neil at coffinridge.ca (Neil) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:32:14 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Birds In-Reply-To: <000901c87dee$92f223d0$0e92c3d8@DBNC5061> References: <000901c87dee$92f223d0$0e92c3d8@DBNC5061> Message-ID: <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F003911EFB@hosted4.myexchange.ad> You will not need nets until you crop ie year 3. We found that bird distress calls and flash tape helped but not as much as our crop increased. We have a bird cannon and this helps but is not 100 % effective and can distress neighbours. (If you are zoned agricultural this a legitimate farm practice however, and neighbours have no basis upon which to complain.) Therefore we are and will be netting all rows as they come on line. You should look at an environmental farm plan if you will qualify as a farm. In Ontario this is through the Soil and Crop association. You can recover about 1/3 of your crop protection costs including netting. There are other benefits/refunds re consulting, wells etc. By the way raccoons very gently pick the grapes from under bird netting. Neil Lamont Coffin Ridge ________________________________ From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Michele Roberge Sent: March 4, 2008 06:55 To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: [Growwine] Birds Greetings! I am planting my first vines this spring. What is your advice for bird control? Should I buy miles of netting? Thanks, Michele -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/f91b4a0b/attachment.html From canadavintage at hotmail.com Tue Mar 4 12:49:39 2008 From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (CanadaVintage) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:49:39 -0800 Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. References: Message-ID: The measurement of TA is g/l in Tartaric acid The other measurements are using the HPLC (mg/l) profile of organic acids in wine. MLF, unfortunately may not go to completion since I now have 20-25 ppm free S02 in tank. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Rayner" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:28 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > Hi Anthony, a couple of questions. > Is your TA measurement of 7.4g/l as sulphuric or tartaric and how did you > measure the malic to tartaric ratio. > > Are you not going to let the malolactic conversion go to completion. > > Terry > > > >From: "CanadaVintage" > >Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > >To: > >Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:05:12 -0800 > > > >Gents, > >I have a dilemma to solve: > >A red wine of mine is showing a TA of 7.4 g/l, malic acid @ 330 mg/l, and > >Tartaric @ 994.36 mg/l. > >pH is 3.2. > > > >How do I drop my TA down to say 5.4 g/l without having to wait months to > >bottle due to precipation crystals. Currently, my tartaric is quite stable. > > > >Also, the Malic conversion is partial and I am worried about instability in > >bottle if I do not use double salt? > >Should I hit it with free S02 at 40ppm and Lysozyme? > > > >Residual sugar at .17% so I cannot add sugar to mask acid bite. > > > >Options? > >KHCO3? > >CaCO3? > >or Double Salt? > >What about the newer method of Extended Double Salt Deacidification? > > > > > >thank-you > >Anthony > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Growwine mailing list > >Growwine at littlefatwino.com > >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > From hydahlia at shaw.ca Tue Mar 4 09:55:39 2008 From: hydahlia at shaw.ca (Wayne Holland) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 06:55:39 -0800 Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <1F346A00-857A-48AF-BEF9-B71E2C65A4F2@shaw.ca> You could safely add 1 or 2 grams per L of Pot. Bicarb. The outgassing will flush the SO2 and improve the malo environment. wayne On 4-Mar-08, at 9:49 AM, CanadaVintage wrote: > The measurement of TA is g/l in Tartaric acid > The other measurements are using the HPLC (mg/l) profile of organic > acids in > wine. > > MLF, unfortunately may not go to completion since I now have 20-25 > ppm free > S02 in tank. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Terry Rayner" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > > >> Hi Anthony, a couple of questions. >> Is your TA measurement of 7.4g/l as sulphuric or tartaric and how >> did you >> measure the malic to tartaric ratio. >> >> Are you not going to let the malolactic conversion go to completion. >> >> Terry >> >> >>> From: "CanadaVintage" >>> Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >>> To: >>> Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. >>> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:05:12 -0800 >>> >>> Gents, >>> I have a dilemma to solve: >>> A red wine of mine is showing a TA of 7.4 g/l, malic acid @ 330 >>> mg/l, and >>> Tartaric @ 994.36 mg/l. >>> pH is 3.2. >>> >>> How do I drop my TA down to say 5.4 g/l without having to wait >>> months to >>> bottle due to precipation crystals. Currently, my tartaric is quite > stable. >>> >>> Also, the Malic conversion is partial and I am worried about >>> instability > in >>> bottle if I do not use double salt? >>> Should I hit it with free S02 at 40ppm and Lysozyme? >>> >>> Residual sugar at .17% so I cannot add sugar to mask acid bite. >>> >>> Options? >>> KHCO3? >>> CaCO3? >>> or Double Salt? >>> What about the newer method of Extended Double Salt Deacidification? >>> >>> >>> thank-you >>> Anthony >>> >>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Growwine mailing list >>> Growwine at littlefatwino.com >>> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Growwine mailing list >> Growwine at littlefatwino.com >> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine >> > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From terry.rayner at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 4 09:58:44 2008 From: terry.rayner at sympatico.ca (Terry Rayner) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 09:58:44 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Most mlf can handle the 20-25 ppm range but it depends on which mlf you're using. Are you able to heat the tank? You have lots of room with your pH to decrease the acidity and increase the pH. Normally below 10g'l tartaric I'd use potassium bicarbonate but if you want to reduce the malic as well then using the double salt would achieve what you're after. Take a look at: www.begerow.com/en/pdf/products/1B312.pdf There are 2 charts at the end. One for wine and one for must. The double salt is an effective way to reduce both malic and tartaric acid. For the reduction that you're after you'll need to add about 1.3 Kg's of Sihadex in 44% of the volume of the wine that you want to deacidify, then add that back to the bulkwine, after racking off the sediment, and cold stabilize. Note the 1.3 Kg's is based on 1000L of wine. Terry >From: "CanadaVintage" >Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >To: >Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:49:39 -0800 > >The measurement of TA is g/l in Tartaric acid >The other measurements are using the HPLC (mg/l) profile of organic acids >in >wine. > >MLF, unfortunately may not go to completion since I now have 20-25 ppm free >S02 in tank. > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Terry Rayner" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:28 AM >Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > > > > Hi Anthony, a couple of questions. > > Is your TA measurement of 7.4g/l as sulphuric or tartaric and how did >you > > measure the malic to tartaric ratio. > > > > Are you not going to let the malolactic conversion go to completion. > > > > Terry > > > > > > >From: "CanadaVintage" > > >Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > > >To: > > >Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > > >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:05:12 -0800 > > > > > >Gents, > > >I have a dilemma to solve: > > >A red wine of mine is showing a TA of 7.4 g/l, malic acid @ 330 mg/l, >and > > >Tartaric @ 994.36 mg/l. > > >pH is 3.2. > > > > > >How do I drop my TA down to say 5.4 g/l without having to wait months >to > > >bottle due to precipation crystals. Currently, my tartaric is quite >stable. > > > > > >Also, the Malic conversion is partial and I am worried about >instability >in > > >bottle if I do not use double salt? > > >Should I hit it with free S02 at 40ppm and Lysozyme? > > > > > >Residual sugar at .17% so I cannot add sugar to mask acid bite. > > > > > >Options? > > >KHCO3? > > >CaCO3? > > >or Double Salt? > > >What about the newer method of Extended Double Salt Deacidification? > > > > > > > > >thank-you > > >Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Growwine mailing list > > >Growwine at littlefatwino.com > > >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Growwine mailing list > > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > >_______________________________________________ >Growwine mailing list >Growwine at littlefatwino.com >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From jiml5 at nexicom.net Tue Mar 4 10:10:56 2008 From: jiml5 at nexicom.net (Jim Lloyd) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:10:56 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. References: <002e01c87cb4$0d632ce0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Message-ID: <005e01c87e09$f3401dd0$a949fea9@Lloyd> My first question would be..........why do you want the wine at pH 5.4 ? Have you done any trials to see what it would taste like at this level ? Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/d38906ee/attachment.html From canadavintage at hotmail.com Tue Mar 4 13:18:18 2008 From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (CanadaVintage) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:18:18 -0800 Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. References: Message-ID: I can heat. I am a little reluctant with double salt because I do not want to create a potential tartrate instability. I need to get this wine out on the market in Spring so I have little time to correct. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Rayner" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > Most mlf can handle the 20-25 ppm range but it depends on which mlf you're > using. > > Are you able to heat the tank? > > You have lots of room with your pH to decrease the acidity and increase the > pH. Normally below 10g'l tartaric I'd use potassium bicarbonate but if you > want to reduce the malic as well then using the double salt would achieve > what you're after. > > Take a look at: www.begerow.com/en/pdf/products/1B312.pdf > There are 2 charts at the end. One for wine and one for must. The double > salt is an effective way to reduce both malic and tartaric acid. For the > reduction that you're after you'll need to add about 1.3 Kg's of Sihadex in > 44% of the volume of the wine that you want to deacidify, then add that back > to the bulkwine, after racking off the sediment, and cold stabilize. Note > the 1.3 Kg's is based on 1000L of wine. > > Terry > > > >From: "CanadaVintage" > >Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:49:39 -0800 > > > >The measurement of TA is g/l in Tartaric acid > >The other measurements are using the HPLC (mg/l) profile of organic acids > >in > >wine. > > > >MLF, unfortunately may not go to completion since I now have 20-25 ppm free > >S02 in tank. > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Terry Rayner" > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:28 AM > >Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > > > > > > > Hi Anthony, a couple of questions. > > > Is your TA measurement of 7.4g/l as sulphuric or tartaric and how did > >you > > > measure the malic to tartaric ratio. > > > > > > Are you not going to let the malolactic conversion go to completion. > > > > > > Terry > > > > > > > > > >From: "CanadaVintage" > > > >Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > > > >To: > > > >Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > > > >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:05:12 -0800 > > > > > > > >Gents, > > > >I have a dilemma to solve: > > > >A red wine of mine is showing a TA of 7.4 g/l, malic acid @ 330 mg/l, > >and > > > >Tartaric @ 994.36 mg/l. > > > >pH is 3.2. > > > > > > > >How do I drop my TA down to say 5.4 g/l without having to wait months > >to > > > >bottle due to precipation crystals. Currently, my tartaric is quite > >stable. > > > > > > > >Also, the Malic conversion is partial and I am worried about > >instability > >in > > > >bottle if I do not use double salt? > > > >Should I hit it with free S02 at 40ppm and Lysozyme? > > > > > > > >Residual sugar at .17% so I cannot add sugar to mask acid bite. > > > > > > > >Options? > > > >KHCO3? > > > >CaCO3? > > > >or Double Salt? > > > >What about the newer method of Extended Double Salt Deacidification? > > > > > > > > > > > >thank-you > > > >Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >Growwine mailing list > > > >Growwine at littlefatwino.com > > > >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Growwine mailing list > > > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > > > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Growwine mailing list > >Growwine at littlefatwino.com > >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > From canadavintage at hotmail.com Tue Mar 4 13:22:43 2008 From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (CanadaVintage) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:22:43 -0800 Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. References: <002e01c87cb4$0d632ce0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> <005e01c87e09$f3401dd0$a949fea9@Lloyd> Message-ID: Jim,I want the TA at 5.4 not pH. pH at 5.4 would taste like water. ant ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Lloyd To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. My first question would be..........why do you want the wine at pH 5.4 ? Have you done any trials to see what it would taste like at this level ? Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/cee8d44d/attachment.html From terry.rayner at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 4 10:21:05 2008 From: terry.rayner at sympatico.ca (Terry Rayner) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 10:21:05 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The double salt is your most effective way of reducing the malic if you're not going to allow the malolactic conversion to complete. Using potassium bicarbonate will reduce your tartaric but will also require cold stabilization after use to ensure tartrate precipitation. If you think that the mlf might go, but at pH 3.2 that's a marginal guess, you could add a little bicarbonate to increase the pH into the 3.3-3.4 range and let the mlf do the rest. Terry >From: "CanadaVintage" >Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >To: >Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:18:18 -0800 > >I can heat. >I am a little reluctant with double salt because I do not want to create a >potential tartrate instability. I need to get this wine out on the market >in >Spring so I have little time to correct. > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Terry Rayner" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:58 AM >Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > > > > Most mlf can handle the 20-25 ppm range but it depends on which mlf >you're > > using. > > > > Are you able to heat the tank? > > > > You have lots of room with your pH to decrease the acidity and increase >the > > pH. Normally below 10g'l tartaric I'd use potassium bicarbonate but if >you > > want to reduce the malic as well then using the double salt would >achieve > > what you're after. > > > > Take a look at: www.begerow.com/en/pdf/products/1B312.pdf > > There are 2 charts at the end. One for wine and one for must. The double > > salt is an effective way to reduce both malic and tartaric acid. For the > > reduction that you're after you'll need to add about 1.3 Kg's of Sihadex >in > > 44% of the volume of the wine that you want to deacidify, then add that >back > > to the bulkwine, after racking off the sediment, and cold stabilize. >Note > > the 1.3 Kg's is based on 1000L of wine. > > > > Terry > > > > > > >From: "CanadaVintage" > > >Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > > >To: > > >Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > > >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:49:39 -0800 > > > > > >The measurement of TA is g/l in Tartaric acid > > >The other measurements are using the HPLC (mg/l) profile of organic >acids > > >in > > >wine. > > > > > >MLF, unfortunately may not go to completion since I now have 20-25 ppm >free > > >S02 in tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Terry Rayner" > > >To: > > >Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:28 AM > > >Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > > > > > > > > > > Hi Anthony, a couple of questions. > > > > Is your TA measurement of 7.4g/l as sulphuric or tartaric and how >did > > >you > > > > measure the malic to tartaric ratio. > > > > > > > > Are you not going to let the malolactic conversion go to completion. > > > > > > > > Terry > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "CanadaVintage" > > > > >Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > > > > >To: > > > > >Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > > > > >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:05:12 -0800 > > > > > > > > > >Gents, > > > > >I have a dilemma to solve: > > > > >A red wine of mine is showing a TA of 7.4 g/l, malic acid @ 330 >mg/l, > > >and > > > > >Tartaric @ 994.36 mg/l. > > > > >pH is 3.2. > > > > > > > > > >How do I drop my TA down to say 5.4 g/l without having to wait >months > > >to > > > > >bottle due to precipation crystals. Currently, my tartaric is quite > > >stable. > > > > > > > > > >Also, the Malic conversion is partial and I am worried about > > >instability > > >in > > > > >bottle if I do not use double salt? > > > > >Should I hit it with free S02 at 40ppm and Lysozyme? > > > > > > > > > >Residual sugar at .17% so I cannot add sugar to mask acid bite. > > > > > > > > > >Options? > > > > >KHCO3? > > > > >CaCO3? > > > > >or Double Salt? > > > > >What about the newer method of Extended Double Salt >Deacidification? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >thank-you > > > > >Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > >Growwine mailing list > > > > >Growwine at littlefatwino.com > > > > >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Growwine mailing list > > > > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > > > > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Growwine mailing list > > >Growwine at littlefatwino.com > > >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Growwine mailing list > > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > >_______________________________________________ >Growwine mailing list >Growwine at littlefatwino.com >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From canadavintage at hotmail.com Tue Mar 4 13:32:30 2008 From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (CanadaVintage) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:32:30 -0800 Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. References: Message-ID: I agree, it is likely the best option (double salt) at this point. I still have a few weeks of cold weather to drop the cellar temp and precipitate. Anthony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Rayner" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 7:21 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > The double salt is your most effective way of reducing the malic if you're > not going to allow the malolactic conversion to complete. Using potassium > bicarbonate will reduce your tartaric but will also require cold > stabilization after use to ensure tartrate precipitation. > > If you think that the mlf might go, but at pH 3.2 that's a marginal guess, > you could add a little bicarbonate to increase the pH into the 3.3-3.4 range > and let the mlf do the rest. > > Terry > > > >From: "CanadaVintage" > >Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:18:18 -0800 > > > >I can heat. > >I am a little reluctant with double salt because I do not want to create a > >potential tartrate instability. I need to get this wine out on the market > >in > >Spring so I have little time to correct. > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Terry Rayner" > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:58 AM > >Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > > > > > > > Most mlf can handle the 20-25 ppm range but it depends on which mlf > >you're > > > using. > > > > > > Are you able to heat the tank? > > > > > > You have lots of room with your pH to decrease the acidity and increase > >the > > > pH. Normally below 10g'l tartaric I'd use potassium bicarbonate but if > >you > > > want to reduce the malic as well then using the double salt would > >achieve > > > what you're after. > > > > > > Take a look at: www.begerow.com/en/pdf/products/1B312.pdf > > > There are 2 charts at the end. One for wine and one for must. The double > > > salt is an effective way to reduce both malic and tartaric acid. For the > > > reduction that you're after you'll need to add about 1.3 Kg's of Sihadex > >in > > > 44% of the volume of the wine that you want to deacidify, then add that > >back > > > to the bulkwine, after racking off the sediment, and cold stabilize. > >Note > > > the 1.3 Kg's is based on 1000L of wine. > > > > > > Terry > > > > > > > > > >From: "CanadaVintage" > > > >Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > > > >To: > > > >Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > > > >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:49:39 -0800 > > > > > > > >The measurement of TA is g/l in Tartaric acid > > > >The other measurements are using the HPLC (mg/l) profile of organic > >acids > > > >in > > > >wine. > > > > > > > >MLF, unfortunately may not go to completion since I now have 20-25 ppm > >free > > > >S02 in tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Terry Rayner" > > > >To: > > > >Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:28 AM > > > >Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Anthony, a couple of questions. > > > > > Is your TA measurement of 7.4g/l as sulphuric or tartaric and how > >did > > > >you > > > > > measure the malic to tartaric ratio. > > > > > > > > > > Are you not going to let the malolactic conversion go to completion. > > > > > > > > > > Terry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "CanadaVintage" > > > > > >Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > > > > > >To: > > > > > >Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. > > > > > >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:05:12 -0800 > > > > > > > > > > > >Gents, > > > > > >I have a dilemma to solve: > > > > > >A red wine of mine is showing a TA of 7.4 g/l, malic acid @ 330 > >mg/l, > > > >and > > > > > >Tartaric @ 994.36 mg/l. > > > > > >pH is 3.2. > > > > > > > > > > > >How do I drop my TA down to say 5.4 g/l without having to wait > >months > > > >to > > > > > >bottle due to precipation crystals. Currently, my tartaric is quite > > > >stable. > > > > > > > > > > > >Also, the Malic conversion is partial and I am worried about > > > >instability > > > >in > > > > > >bottle if I do not use double salt? > > > > > >Should I hit it with free S02 at 40ppm and Lysozyme? > > > > > > > > > > > >Residual sugar at .17% so I cannot add sugar to mask acid bite. > > > > > > > > > > > >Options? > > > > > >KHCO3? > > > > > >CaCO3? > > > > > >or Double Salt? > > > > > >What about the newer method of Extended Double Salt > >Deacidification? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >thank-you > > > > > >Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > > >Growwine mailing list > > > > > >Growwine at littlefatwino.com > > > > > >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Growwine mailing list > > > > > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > > > > > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >Growwine mailing list > > > >Growwine at littlefatwino.com > > > >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Growwine mailing list > > > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > > > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Growwine mailing list > >Growwine at littlefatwino.com > >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > From rwdbest at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 4 10:53:33 2008 From: rwdbest at sympatico.ca (Richard Best) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 10:53:33 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Birds In-Reply-To: <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F003911EFB@hosted4.myexchange.ad> References: <000901c87dee$92f223d0$0e92c3d8@DBNC5061> <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F003911EFB@hosted4.myexchange.ad> Message-ID: <47CD707D.6070203@sympatico.ca> Neil wrote: > > You will not need nets until you crop ie year 3. We found that bird > distress calls and flash tape helped but not as much as our crop > increased. > I use the flash (moire) tape to tie the vines to the trellis. Very catchy looking and the birds won't go near it. Regards, Richard Best - The Frugal Oenophile "Use it up; wear it out; make it last" And please don't leave your vehicle idling. From vitiferas at hotmail.com Tue Mar 4 11:18:23 2008 From: vitiferas at hotmail.com (Jean Houle) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:18:23 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Birds In-Reply-To: <47CD707D.6070203@sympatico.ca> References: <000901c87dee$92f223d0$0e92c3d8@DBNC5061> <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F003911EFB@hosted4.myexchange.ad> <47CD707D.6070203@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Richard where did you purchase the "flash (moire) tape" you use for tying.Jean Houle Charlemagne Quebec Zone de rusticit? 4b-5a du Canada Canada plant hardiness zone 4b-5a Sud-ouest du Qu?bec / Southwest Qu?bec "Petit ou grand, un bon vin a la gueule de l'endroit o? il est n?, et les tripes du bonhomme qui l'a fait." Jacques Puisais "The best chance of success is crossing adaptive hybrids on other adaptive hybrids." Elmer Swenson > Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:53:33 -0500> From: rwdbest at sympatico.ca> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds> > Neil wrote:> >> > You will not need nets until you crop ie year 3. We found that bird > > distress calls and flash tape helped but not as much as our crop > > increased.> >> > I use the flash (moire) tape to tie the vines to the trellis. Very > catchy looking and the birds won't go near it.> > Regards,> Richard Best - The Frugal Oenophile> > "Use it up; wear it out; make it last"> And please don't leave your vehicle idling. > _______________________________________________> Growwine mailing list> Growwine at littlefatwino.com> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/124e9f08/attachment.html From jiml5 at nexicom.net Tue Mar 4 11:55:01 2008 From: jiml5 at nexicom.net (Jim Lloyd) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:55:01 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. References: <002e01c87cb4$0d632ce0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C><005e01c87e09$f3401dd0$a949fea9@Lloyd> Message-ID: <008a01c87e18$7d839770$a949fea9@Lloyd> You are correct. I meant to say TA of 5.4. Question still is, have you done a bench trial with the TA at this level ? Each wine is different and shooting for a "normal" TA may not be the best for a specific wine. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: CanadaVintage To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. Jim,I want the TA at 5.4 not pH. pH at 5.4 would taste like water. ant ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Lloyd To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [Growwine] For the chemists out there. My first question would be..........why do you want the wine at pH 5.4 ? Have you done any trials to see what it would taste like at this level ? Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/35e57e13/attachment.html From neil at coffinridge.ca Tue Mar 4 12:23:44 2008 From: neil at coffinridge.ca (Neil) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 12:23:44 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Birds In-Reply-To: <47CD707D.6070203@sympatico.ca> References: <000901c87dee$92f223d0$0e92c3d8@DBNC5061><87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F003911EFB@hosted4.myexchange.ad> <47CD707D.6070203@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F003911FBC@hosted4.myexchange.ad> It does not work for cedar waxwings and marginally for robins. Tape etc can be from French (spelling) in Vineland I believe. Neil -----Original Message----- From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of Richard Best Sent: March 4, 2008 10:54 To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Neil wrote: > > You will not need nets until you crop ie year 3. We found that bird > distress calls and flash tape helped but not as much as our crop > increased. > I use the flash (moire) tape to tie the vines to the trellis. Very catchy looking and the birds won't go near it. Regards, Richard Best - The Frugal Oenophile "Use it up; wear it out; make it last" And please don't leave your vehicle idling. _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From countrymouse at ns.sympatico.ca Tue Mar 4 13:27:18 2008 From: countrymouse at ns.sympatico.ca (countrymouse@ns.sympatico.ca) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 14:27:18 -0400 Subject: [Growwine] Birds References: <000901c87dee$92f223d0$0e92c3d8@DBNC5061><87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F003911EFB@hosted4.myexchange.ad> <47CD707D.6070203@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <003e01c87e25$61666790$0a02a8c0@motts> Jean, Neil and others: Over past three or four years I have using a similar product....but at a much cheaper cost than moir� tape....I go to the local "Dollar Store" in the early spring and purchase those things that little children put on the handle grips of their bicycles that flap in the wind....they are reflective and sparkly...usually blue/silver metallic or red/silver metallic. You can purchase several dozen of these gizmos that are already cut to size with seven or eight strands together with a small handle to tie your string onto then on the catch wires or posts.......they last several years and keep the deer and birds away.....that's what works for me. Elayne "Have a grape day." ----- Original Message ----- From: Jean Houle To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Richard where did you purchase the "flash (moire) tape" you use for tying. Jean Houle Charlemagne Quebec Zone de rusticit� 4b-5a du Canada Canada plant hardiness zone 4b-5a Sud-ouest du Qu�bec / Southwest Qu�bec "Petit ou grand, un bon vin a la gueule de l'endroit o� il est n�, et les tripes du bonhomme qui l'a fait." Jacques Puisais "The best chance of success is crossing adaptive hybrids on other adaptive hybrids." Elmer Swenson > Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:53:33 -0500 > From: rwdbest at sympatico.ca > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds > > Neil wrote: > > > > You will not need nets until you crop ie year 3. We found that bird > > distress calls and flash tape helped but not as much as our crop > > increased. > > > > I use the flash (moire) tape to tie the vines to the trellis. Very > catchy looking and the birds won't go near it. > > Regards, > Richard Best - The Frugal Oenophile > > "Use it up; wear it out; make it last" > And please don't leave your vehicle idling. > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/cbf3b1b3/attachment.html From winemaker at kacaba.com Tue Mar 4 13:41:31 2008 From: winemaker at kacaba.com (John Tummon) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:41:31 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Birds In-Reply-To: <003e01c87e25$61666790$0a02a8c0@motts> Message-ID: <007201c87e27$5d673b90$6500a8c0@Winery> VCR tapes work as well. Shiny on one side. If you take a length with a few twists in it and tie it between two posts, it creates an interesting effect. Late in the season, nothing seems to work. I've got bangers, cannons, crackers, whistlers, squawkers, bird distress calls, flash tape, Scary Eye balloons, flash pyramids, bird scaring kites and most recently netting. John Tummon, Winemaker / General Manager, Kacaba Vineyards, 3550 King St., Vineland, ON. L0R 2C0 Ph: 905-562-5625 Fax: 905-562-1111 winemaker at kacaba.com _____ From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of countrymouse at ns.sympatico.ca Sent: March 4, 2008 1:27 PM To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Jean, Neil and others: Over past three or four years I have using a similar product....but at a much cheaper cost than moir? tape....I go to the local "Dollar Store" in the early spring and purchase those things that little children put on the handle grips of their bicycles that flap in the wind....they are reflective and sparkly...usually blue/silver metallic or red/silver metallic. You can purchase several dozen of these gizmos that are already cut to size with seven or eight strands together with a small handle to tie your string onto then on the catch wires or posts.......they last several years and keep the deer and birds away.....that's what works for me. Elayne "Have a grape day." ----- Original Message ----- From: Jean Houle To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Richard where did you purchase the "flash (moire) tape" you use for tying. Jean Houle Charlemagne Quebec Zone de rusticit? 4b-5a du Canada Canada plant hardiness zone 4b-5a Sud-ouest du Qu?bec / Southwest Qu?bec "Petit ou grand, un bon vin a la gueule de l'endroit o? il est n?, et les tripes du bonhomme qui l'a fait." Jacques Puisais "The best chance of success is crossing adaptive hybrids on other adaptive hybrids." Elmer Swenson > Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:53:33 -0500 > From: rwdbest at sympatico.ca > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds > > Neil wrote: > > > > You will not need nets until you crop ie year 3. We found that bird > > distress calls and flash tape helped but not as much as our crop > > increased. > > > > I use the flash (moire) tape to tie the vines to the trellis. Very > catchy looking and the birds won't go near it. > > Regards, > Richard Best - The Frugal Oenophile > > "Use it up; wear it out; make it last" > And please don't leave your vehicle idling. > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _____ _____ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/84c20968/attachment.html From laura-sabourin at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 4 13:43:43 2008 From: laura-sabourin at sympatico.ca (Laura) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:43:43 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Birds References: <007201c87e27$5d673b90$6500a8c0@Winery> Message-ID: Only thing that works for certain is netting. Then make sure you clip it closed because they will even come inside the net :-( Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: John Tummon To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds VCR tapes work as well. Shiny on one side. If you take a length with a few twists in it and tie it between two posts, it creates an interesting effect. Late in the season, nothing seems to work. I've got bangers, cannons, crackers, whistlers, squawkers, bird distress calls, flash tape, Scary Eye balloons, flash pyramids, bird scaring kites and most recently netting. John Tummon, Winemaker / General Manager, Kacaba Vineyards, 3550 King St., Vineland, ON. L0R 2C0 Ph: 905-562-5625 Fax: 905-562-1111 winemaker at kacaba.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of countrymouse at ns.sympatico.ca Sent: March 4, 2008 1:27 PM To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Jean, Neil and others: Over past three or four years I have using a similar product....but at a much cheaper cost than moir? tape....I go to the local "Dollar Store" in the early spring and purchase those things that little children put on the handle grips of their bicycles that flap in the wind....they are reflective and sparkly...usually blue/silver metallic or red/silver metallic. You can purchase several dozen of these gizmos that are already cut to size with seven or eight strands together with a small handle to tie your string onto then on the catch wires or posts.......they last several years and keep the deer and birds away.....that's what works for me. Elayne "Have a grape day." ----- Original Message ----- From: Jean Houle To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Richard where did you purchase the "flash (moire) tape" you use for tying. Jean Houle Charlemagne Quebec Zone de rusticit? 4b-5a du Canada Canada plant hardiness zone 4b-5a Sud-ouest du Qu?bec / Southwest Qu?bec "Petit ou grand, un bon vin a la gueule de l'endroit o? il est n?, et les tripes du bonhomme qui l'a fait." Jacques Puisais "The best chance of success is crossing adaptive hybrids on other adaptive hybrids." Elmer Swenson > Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:53:33 -0500 > From: rwdbest at sympatico.ca > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds > > Neil wrote: > > > > You will not need nets until you crop ie year 3. We found that bird > > distress calls and flash tape helped but not as much as our crop > > increased. > > > > I use the flash (moire) tape to tie the vines to the trellis. Very > catchy looking and the birds won't go near it. > > Regards, > Richard Best - The Frugal Oenophile > > "Use it up; wear it out; make it last" > And please don't leave your vehicle idling. > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/46dfcfa6/attachment.html From canadavintage at hotmail.com Tue Mar 4 17:54:36 2008 From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (CanadaVintage) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 14:54:36 -0800 Subject: [Growwine] De-Acidify wine prior to bottling References: <002e01c87cb4$0d632ce0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C><005e01c87e09$f3401dd0$a949fea9@Lloyd> <008a01c87e18$7d839770$a949fea9@Lloyd> Message-ID: Anyone know who carries Kalinat on the East Coast? Anthony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/fae74938/attachment.html From terry.rayner at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 4 15:06:35 2008 From: terry.rayner at sympatico.ca (Terry Rayner) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 15:06:35 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Birds In-Reply-To: <007201c87e27$5d673b90$6500a8c0@Winery> Message-ID: Siimple solution John..........get the littelfatwino to stand in your field. :o} >From: "John Tummon" >Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >To: >Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:41:31 -0500 > >VCR tapes work as well. Shiny on one side. If you take a length with a few >twists in it and tie it between two posts, it creates an interesting >effect. >Late in the season, nothing seems to work. I've got bangers, cannons, >crackers, whistlers, squawkers, bird distress calls, flash tape, Scary Eye >balloons, flash pyramids, bird scaring kites and most recently netting. > >John Tummon, >Winemaker / General Manager, >Kacaba Vineyards, >3550 King St., >Vineland, ON. L0R 2C0 >Ph: 905-562-5625 >Fax: 905-562-1111 >winemaker at kacaba.com > > > > _____ > >From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com >[mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of >countrymouse at ns.sympatico.ca >Sent: March 4, 2008 1:27 PM >To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds > > > Jean, Neil and others: > > Over past three or four years I have using a similar product....but >at >a much cheaper cost than moir� tape....I go to the local "Dollar Store" in >the early spring and purchase those things that little children put on the >handle grips of their bicycles that flap in the wind....they are reflective >and sparkly...usually blue/silver metallic or red/silver metallic. You can >purchase several dozen of these gizmos that are already cut to size with >seven or eight strands together with a small handle to tie your string onto >then on the catch wires or posts.......they last several years and keep >the >deer and birds away.....that's what works for me. > >Elayne >"Have a grape day." > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Jean Houle >To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:18 PM >Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds > >Richard where did you purchase the "flash (moire) tape" you use for tying. > >Jean Houle >Charlemagne Quebec >Zone de rusticit� 4b-5a du Canada >Canada plant hardiness zone 4b-5a >Sud-ouest du Qu�bec / Southwest Qu�bec > >"Petit ou grand, un bon vin a la gueule de l'endroit o� il est n�, et les >tripes du bonhomme qui l'a fait." >Jacques Puisais > >"The best chance of success is crossing adaptive hybrids on other adaptive >hybrids." >Elmer Swenson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:53:33 -0500 > > From: rwdbest at sympatico.ca > > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds > > > > Neil wrote: > > > > > > You will not need nets until you crop ie year 3. We found that bird > > > distress calls and flash tape helped but not as much as our crop > > > increased. > > > > > > > I use the flash (moire) tape to tie the vines to the trellis. Very > > catchy looking and the birds won't go near it. > > > > Regards, > > Richard Best - The Frugal Oenophile > > > > "Use it up; wear it out; make it last" > > And please don't leave your vehicle idling. > > _______________________________________________ > > Growwine mailing list > > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _____ > > > > _____ > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Growwine mailing list >Growwine at littlefatwino.com >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > >_______________________________________________ >Growwine mailing list >Growwine at littlefatwino.com >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca Tue Mar 4 15:24:18 2008 From: littlefatwino1 at cogeco.ca (Larry Paterson) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 15:24:18 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Birds References: Message-ID: <006901c87e35$fc2ca590$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> with the added advantage that a spectacle such as a littlefatwino in your field might just scare off the various ravenoo-ers, government people and other beaurocratic undesireables. But every scarecrow needs a cowardly lion, so perhaps you need a Reign-er (king of the forest?) in the field as well... that would at least scare off young girls and serious winedrinkers. Lardy Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Rayner" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Siimple solution John..........get the littelfatwino to stand in your field. :o} >From: "John Tummon" >Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >To: >Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:41:31 -0500 > >VCR tapes work as well. Shiny on one side. If you take a length with a few >twists in it and tie it between two posts, it creates an interesting >effect. >Late in the season, nothing seems to work. I've got bangers, cannons, >crackers, whistlers, squawkers, bird distress calls, flash tape, Scary Eye >balloons, flash pyramids, bird scaring kites and most recently netting. > >John Tummon, >Winemaker / General Manager, >Kacaba Vineyards, >3550 King St., >Vineland, ON. L0R 2C0 >Ph: 905-562-5625 >Fax: 905-562-1111 >winemaker at kacaba.com > > > > _____ > >From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com >[mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of >countrymouse at ns.sympatico.ca >Sent: March 4, 2008 1:27 PM >To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds > > > Jean, Neil and others: > > Over past three or four years I have using a similar product....but >at >a much cheaper cost than moir? tape....I go to the local "Dollar Store" in >the early spring and purchase those things that little children put on the >handle grips of their bicycles that flap in the wind....they are reflective >and sparkly...usually blue/silver metallic or red/silver metallic. You can >purchase several dozen of these gizmos that are already cut to size with >seven or eight strands together with a small handle to tie your string onto >then on the catch wires or posts.......they last several years and keep >the >deer and birds away.....that's what works for me. > >Elayne >"Have a grape day." > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Jean Houle >To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:18 PM >Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds > >Richard where did you purchase the "flash (moire) tape" you use for tying. > >Jean Houle >Charlemagne Quebec >Zone de rusticit? 4b-5a du Canada >Canada plant hardiness zone 4b-5a >Sud-ouest du Qu?bec / Southwest Qu?bec > >"Petit ou grand, un bon vin a la gueule de l'endroit o? il est n?, et les >tripes du bonhomme qui l'a fait." >Jacques Puisais > >"The best chance of success is crossing adaptive hybrids on other adaptive >hybrids." >Elmer Swenson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:53:33 -0500 > > From: rwdbest at sympatico.ca > > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds > > > > Neil wrote: > > > > > > You will not need nets until you crop ie year 3. We found that bird > > > distress calls and flash tape helped but not as much as our crop > > > increased. > > > > > > > I use the flash (moire) tape to tie the vines to the trellis. Very > > catchy looking and the birds won't go near it. > > > > Regards, > > Richard Best - The Frugal Oenophile > > > > "Use it up; wear it out; make it last" > > And please don't leave your vehicle idling. > > _______________________________________________ > > Growwine mailing list > > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _____ > > > > _____ > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Growwine mailing list >Growwine at littlefatwino.com >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > >_______________________________________________ >Growwine mailing list >Growwine at littlefatwino.com >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From rwdbest at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 4 15:29:33 2008 From: rwdbest at sympatico.ca (Richard Best) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 15:29:33 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Birds In-Reply-To: References: <000901c87dee$92f223d0$0e92c3d8@DBNC5061> <87C1989D500E25418F6F3C8A0AEF60F003911EFB@hosted4.myexchange.ad> <47CD707D.6070203@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <47CDB12D.1030108@sympatico.ca> Jean Houle wrote: > Richard where did you purchase the "flash (moire) tape" you use for tying. > It's available at Lee Valley, but I go to the dollar store and buy moire wrapping paper and then slice it into 1" wide strips. (How's that for frugal?) Regards, Richard Best - The Frugal Oenophile "Use it up; wear it out; make it last" And please don't leave your vehicle idling. From vspeer at mchsi.com Tue Mar 4 16:04:17 2008 From: vspeer at mchsi.com (Vernon Speer) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 15:04:17 -0600 Subject: [Growwine] Birds In-Reply-To: <006901c87e35$fc2ca590$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> References: <006901c87e35$fc2ca590$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Message-ID: Spectacle Position open in Missouri On Mar 4, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Larry Paterson wrote: with the added advantage that a spectacle such as a littlefatwino in your field might just scare off the various ravenoo-ers, government people and other beaurocratic undesireables. But every scarecrow needs a cowardly lion, so perhaps you need a Reign-er (king of the forest?) in the field as well... that would at least scare off young girls and serious winedrinkers. Lardy Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Rayner" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Siimple solution John..........get the littelfatwino to stand in your field. :o} > From: "John Tummon" > Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > To: > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds > Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:41:31 -0500 > > VCR tapes work as well. Shiny on one side. If you take a length > with a few > twists in it and tie it between two posts, it creates an interesting > effect. > Late in the season, nothing seems to work. I've got bangers, cannons, > crackers, whistlers, squawkers, bird distress calls, flash tape, > Scary Eye > balloons, flash pyramids, bird scaring kites and most recently > netting. > > John Tummon, > Winemaker / General Manager, > Kacaba Vineyards, > 3550 King St., > Vineland, ON. L0R 2C0 > Ph: 905-562-5625 > Fax: 905-562-1111 > winemaker at kacaba.com > > > > _____ > > From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com > [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of > countrymouse at ns.sympatico.ca > Sent: March 4, 2008 1:27 PM > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds > > > Jean, Neil and others: > > Over past three or four years I have using a similar > product....but > at > a much cheaper cost than moir? tape....I go to the local "Dollar > Store" in > the early spring and purchase those things that little children put > on the > handle grips of their bicycles that flap in the wind....they are > reflective > and sparkly...usually blue/silver metallic or red/silver metallic. > You can > purchase several dozen of these gizmos that are already cut to size > with > seven or eight strands together with a small handle to tie your > string onto > then on the catch wires or posts.......they last several years and > keep > the > deer and birds away.....that's what works for me. > > Elayne > "Have a grape day." > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jean Houle > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:18 PM > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds > > Richard where did you purchase the "flash (moire) tape" you use for > tying. > > Jean Houle > Charlemagne Quebec > Zone de rusticit? 4b-5a du Canada > Canada plant hardiness zone 4b-5a > Sud-ouest du Qu?bec / Southwest Qu?bec > > "Petit ou grand, un bon vin a la gueule de l'endroit o? il est n?, > et les > tripes du bonhomme qui l'a fait." > Jacques Puisais > > "The best chance of success is crossing adaptive hybrids on other > adaptive > hybrids." > Elmer Swenson > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:53:33 -0500 >> From: rwdbest at sympatico.ca >> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds >> >> Neil wrote: >>> >>> You will not need nets until you crop ie year 3. We found that bird >>> distress calls and flash tape helped but not as much as our crop >>> increased. >>> >> >> I use the flash (moire) tape to tie the vines to the trellis. Very >> catchy looking and the birds won't go near it. >> >> Regards, >> Richard Best - The Frugal Oenophile >> >> "Use it up; wear it out; make it last" >> And please don't leave your vehicle idling. >> _______________________________________________ >> Growwine mailing list >> Growwine at littlefatwino.com >> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _____ > > > > _____ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/a810c02e/attachment-0001.html From terry.rayner at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 4 16:21:15 2008 From: terry.rayner at sympatico.ca (Terry Rayner) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 16:21:15 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Birds References: <006901c87e35$fc2ca590$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Message-ID: Better come prepared for turbulent weather as when you have a "Reign-er " in the vineyard the weather came change rather dramatically due to the "rain-nor-shine" effect. It's related to the La Nina and El Nino effects. Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Paterson" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds with the added advantage that a spectacle such as a littlefatwino in your field might just scare off the various ravenoo-ers, government people and other beaurocratic undesireables. But every scarecrow needs a cowardly lion, so perhaps you need a Reign-er (king of the forest?) in the field as well... that would at least scare off young girls and serious winedrinkers. Lardy Larry Paterson, lfw, rd, adcc (Little Fat Wino, Roving Drunk, Alcohol Distribution Channels Critic) http://www.littlefatwino.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Rayner" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Siimple solution John..........get the littelfatwino to stand in your field. :o} >From: "John Tummon" >Reply-To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >To: >Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:41:31 -0500 > >VCR tapes work as well. Shiny on one side. If you take a length with a few >twists in it and tie it between two posts, it creates an interesting >effect. >Late in the season, nothing seems to work. I've got bangers, cannons, >crackers, whistlers, squawkers, bird distress calls, flash tape, Scary Eye >balloons, flash pyramids, bird scaring kites and most recently netting. > >John Tummon, >Winemaker / General Manager, >Kacaba Vineyards, >3550 King St., >Vineland, ON. L0R 2C0 >Ph: 905-562-5625 >Fax: 905-562-1111 >winemaker at kacaba.com > > > > _____ > >From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com >[mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of >countrymouse at ns.sympatico.ca >Sent: March 4, 2008 1:27 PM >To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds > > > Jean, Neil and others: > > Over past three or four years I have using a similar product....but >at >a much cheaper cost than moir? tape....I go to the local "Dollar Store" in >the early spring and purchase those things that little children put on the >handle grips of their bicycles that flap in the wind....they are reflective >and sparkly...usually blue/silver metallic or red/silver metallic. You can >purchase several dozen of these gizmos that are already cut to size with >seven or eight strands together with a small handle to tie your string onto >then on the catch wires or posts.......they last several years and keep >the >deer and birds away.....that's what works for me. > >Elayne >"Have a grape day." > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Jean Houle >To: growwine at littlefatwino.com >Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:18 PM >Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds > >Richard where did you purchase the "flash (moire) tape" you use for tying. > >Jean Houle >Charlemagne Quebec >Zone de rusticit? 4b-5a du Canada >Canada plant hardiness zone 4b-5a >Sud-ouest du Qu?bec / Southwest Qu?bec > >"Petit ou grand, un bon vin a la gueule de l'endroit o? il est n?, et les >tripes du bonhomme qui l'a fait." >Jacques Puisais > >"The best chance of success is crossing adaptive hybrids on other adaptive >hybrids." >Elmer Swenson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:53:33 -0500 > > From: rwdbest at sympatico.ca > > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds > > > > Neil wrote: > > > > > > You will not need nets until you crop ie year 3. We found that bird > > > distress calls and flash tape helped but not as much as our crop > > > increased. > > > > > > > I use the flash (moire) tape to tie the vines to the trellis. Very > > catchy looking and the birds won't go near it. > > > > Regards, > > Richard Best - The Frugal Oenophile > > > > "Use it up; wear it out; make it last" > > And please don't leave your vehicle idling. > > _______________________________________________ > > Growwine mailing list > > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > > _____ > > > > _____ > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Growwine mailing list >Growwine at littlefatwino.com >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine > > >_______________________________________________ >Growwine mailing list >Growwine at littlefatwino.com >http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine From terry.rayner at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 4 16:51:06 2008 From: terry.rayner at sympatico.ca (Terry Rayner) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 16:51:06 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] De-Acidify wine prior to bottling References: <002e01c87cb4$0d632ce0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C><005e01c87e09$f3401dd0$a949fea9@Lloyd><008a01c87e18$7d839770$a949fea9@Lloyd> Message-ID: Try Ivan_Lessner at telus.net Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: CanadaVintage To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 5:54 PM Subject: [Growwine] De-Acidify wine prior to bottling Anyone know who carries Kalinat on the East Coast? Anthony ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/bbaefdd2/attachment.html From pepaa99 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 4 17:19:00 2008 From: pepaa99 at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?paul-=E9mile_patry?=) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 17:19:00 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Birds In-Reply-To: References: <007201c87e27$5d673b90$6500a8c0@Winery> Message-ID: HELLO, I am getting serious....!!! please tell me what kind of netting you are using .Is it for every cluster? How do u do it. Thanks for the answer . pepatry From: laura-sabourin at sympatico.caTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:43:43 -0500Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Only thing that works for certain is netting. Then make sure you clip it closed because they will even come inside the net :-( Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: John Tummon To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds VCR tapes work as well. Shiny on one side. If you take a length with a few twists in it and tie it between two posts, it creates an interesting effect. Late in the season, nothing seems to work. I've got bangers, cannons, crackers, whistlers, squawkers, bird distress calls, flash tape, Scary Eye balloons, flash pyramids, bird scaring kites and most recently netting. John Tummon, Winemaker / General Manager, Kacaba Vineyards, 3550 King St., Vineland, ON. L0R 2C0 Ph: 905-562-5625 Fax: 905-562-1111 winemaker at kacaba.com From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of countrymouse at ns.sympatico.caSent: March 4, 2008 1:27 PMTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comSubject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Jean, Neil and others: Over past three or four years I have using a similar product....but at a much cheaper cost than moir? tape....I go to the local "Dollar Store" in the early spring and purchase those things that little children put on the handle grips of their bicycles that flap in the wind....they are reflective and sparkly...usually blue/silver metallic or red/silver metallic. You can purchase several dozen of these gizmos that are already cut to size with seven or eight strands together with a small handle to tie your string onto then on the catch wires or posts.......they last several years and keep the deer and birds away.....that's what works for me. Elayne "Have a grape day." ----- Original Message ----- From: Jean Houle To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Richard where did you purchase the "flash (moire) tape" you use for tying.Jean Houle Charlemagne Quebec Zone de rusticit? 4b-5a du Canada Canada plant hardiness zone 4b-5a Sud-ouest du Qu?bec / Southwest Qu?bec "Petit ou grand, un bon vin a la gueule de l'endroit o? il est n?, et les tripes du bonhomme qui l'a fait." Jacques Puisais "The best chance of success is crossing adaptive hybrids on other adaptive hybrids." Elmer Swenson > Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:53:33 -0500> From: rwdbest at sympatico.ca> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds> > Neil wrote:> >> > You will not need nets until you crop ie year 3. We found that bird > > distress calls and flash tape helped but not as much as our crop > > increased.> >> > I use the flash (moire) tape to tie the vines to the trellis. Very > catchy looking and the birds won't go near it.> > Regards,> Richard Best - The Frugal Oenophile> > "Use it up; wear it out; make it last"> And please don't leave your vehicle idling. > _______________________________________________> Growwine mailing list> Growwine at littlefatwino.com> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _______________________________________________Growwine mailing listGrowwine at littlefatwino.comhttp://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _______________________________________________Growwine mailing listGrowwine at littlefatwino.comhttp://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/337aff93/attachment.html From terry.rayner at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 4 17:34:21 2008 From: terry.rayner at sympatico.ca (Terry Rayner) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 17:34:21 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Birds References: <007201c87e27$5d673b90$6500a8c0@Winery>

Message-ID: Coffin Ridge is using side panel netting from Gintec Shade Technologies Inc.. You can roll up the netting during harvest then drop it down after bud break in the spring / early summer. Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: paul-?mile patry To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds HELLO, I am getting serious....!!! please tell me what kind of netting you are using .Is it for every cluster? How do u do it. Thanks for the answer . pepatry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: laura-sabourin at sympatico.ca To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:43:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Only thing that works for certain is netting. Then make sure you clip it closed because they will even come inside the net :-( Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: John Tummon To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds VCR tapes work as well. Shiny on one side. If you take a length with a few twists in it and tie it between two posts, it creates an interesting effect. Late in the season, nothing seems to work. I've got bangers, cannons, crackers, whistlers, squawkers, bird distress calls, flash tape, Scary Eye balloons, flash pyramids, bird scaring kites and most recently netting. John Tummon, Winemaker / General Manager, Kacaba Vineyards, 3550 King St., Vineland, ON. L0R 2C0 Ph: 905-562-5625 Fax: 905-562-1111 winemaker at kacaba.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of countrymouse at ns.sympatico.ca Sent: March 4, 2008 1:27 PM To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Jean, Neil and others: Over past three or four years I have using a similar product....but at a much cheaper cost than moir? tape....I go to the local "Dollar Store" in the early spring and purchase those things that little children put on the handle grips of their bicycles that flap in the wind....they are reflective and sparkly...usually blue/silver metallic or red/silver metallic. You can purchase several dozen of these gizmos that are already cut to size with seven or eight strands together with a small handle to tie your string onto then on the catch wires or posts.......they last several years and keep the deer and birds away.....that's what works for me. Elayne "Have a grape day." ----- Original Message ----- From: Jean Houle To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Richard where did you purchase the "flash (moire) tape" you use for tying. Jean Houle Charlemagne Quebec Zone de rusticit? 4b-5a du Canada Canada plant hardiness zone 4b-5a Sud-ouest du Qu?bec / Southwest Qu?bec "Petit ou grand, un bon vin a la gueule de l'endroit o? il est n?, et les tripes du bonhomme qui l'a fait." Jacques Puisais "The best chance of success is crossing adaptive hybrids on other adaptive hybrids." Elmer Swenson > Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:53:33 -0500 > From: rwdbest at sympatico.ca > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com > Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds > > Neil wrote: > > > > You will not need nets until you crop ie year 3. We found that bird > > distress calls and flash tape helped but not as much as our crop > > increased. > > > > I use the flash (moire) tape to tie the vines to the trellis. Very > catchy looking and the birds won't go near it. > > Regards, > Richard Best - The Frugal Oenophile > > "Use it up; wear it out; make it last" > And please don't leave your vehicle idling. > _______________________________________________ > Growwine mailing list > Growwine at littlefatwino.com > http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/e10d5569/attachment.html From pepaa99 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 4 22:30:59 2008 From: pepaa99 at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?paul-=E9mile_patry?=) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 22:30:59 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Birds In-Reply-To: References: <007201c87e27$5d673b90$6500a8c0@Winery>

Message-ID: Excuse me, I made a mistake. I was meaning " bagging ". Thanks again. pepa From: terry.rayner at sympatico.caTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 17:34:21 -0500Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Coffin Ridge is using side panel netting from Gintec Shade Technologies Inc.. You can roll up the netting during harvest then drop it down after bud break in the spring / early summer. Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: paul-?mile patry To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds HELLO, I am getting serious....!!! please tell me what kind of netting you are using .Is it for every cluster? How do u do it. Thanks for the answer . pepatry From: laura-sabourin at sympatico.caTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comDate: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:43:43 -0500Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Only thing that works for certain is netting. Then make sure you clip it closed because they will even come inside the net :-( Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: John Tummon To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds VCR tapes work as well. Shiny on one side. If you take a length with a few twists in it and tie it between two posts, it creates an interesting effect. Late in the season, nothing seems to work. I've got bangers, cannons, crackers, whistlers, squawkers, bird distress calls, flash tape, Scary Eye balloons, flash pyramids, bird scaring kites and most recently netting. John Tummon, Winemaker / General Manager, Kacaba Vineyards, 3550 King St., Vineland, ON. L0R 2C0 Ph: 905-562-5625 Fax: 905-562-1111 winemaker at kacaba.com From: growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com [mailto:growwine-bounces at littlefatwino.com] On Behalf Of countrymouse at ns.sympatico.caSent: March 4, 2008 1:27 PMTo: growwine at littlefatwino.comSubject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Jean, Neil and others: Over past three or four years I have using a similar product....but at a much cheaper cost than moir? tape....I go to the local "Dollar Store" in the early spring and purchase those things that little children put on the handle grips of their bicycles that flap in the wind....they are reflective and sparkly...usually blue/silver metallic or red/silver metallic. You can purchase several dozen of these gizmos that are already cut to size with seven or eight strands together with a small handle to tie your string onto then on the catch wires or posts.......they last several years and keep the deer and birds away.....that's what works for me. Elayne "Have a grape day." ----- Original Message ----- From: Jean Houle To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds Richard where did you purchase the "flash (moire) tape" you use for tying.Jean Houle Charlemagne Quebec Zone de rusticit? 4b-5a du Canada Canada plant hardiness zone 4b-5a Sud-ouest du Qu?bec / Southwest Qu?bec "Petit ou grand, un bon vin a la gueule de l'endroit o? il est n?, et les tripes du bonhomme qui l'a fait." Jacques Puisais "The best chance of success is crossing adaptive hybrids on other adaptive hybrids." Elmer Swenson > Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:53:33 -0500> From: rwdbest at sympatico.ca> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com> Subject: Re: [Growwine] Birds> > Neil wrote:> >> > You will not need nets until you crop ie year 3. We found that bird > > distress calls and flash tape helped but not as much as our crop > > increased.> >> > I use the flash (moire) tape to tie the vines to the trellis. Very > catchy looking and the birds won't go near it.> > Regards,> Richard Best - The Frugal Oenophile> > "Use it up; wear it out; make it last"> And please don't leave your vehicle idling. > _______________________________________________> Growwine mailing list> Growwine at littlefatwino.com> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _______________________________________________Growwine mailing listGrowwine at littlefatwino.comhttp://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _______________________________________________Growwine mailing listGrowwine at littlefatwino.comhttp://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _______________________________________________Growwine mailing listGrowwine at littlefatwino.comhttp://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080304/db52f0e8/attachment.html From littlefatwino at trytel.net Wed Mar 5 08:44:59 2008 From: littlefatwino at trytel.net (Larry Paterson) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 08:44:59 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Root Stock Message-ID: <005401c87ec7$1c7c50c0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Cartwright" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 4:43 PM Subject: Root Stock My wife and I are moving to Prince Edward County Ontario, I will be planting grapes vines, I understand that Pinot Nior are doing quite well there , what sort of root stock should I look for, or other verieties of vine . many thanks Walter From vinestovintages at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 5 09:23:40 2008 From: vinestovintages at sympatico.ca (Vinestovintages) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 09:23:40 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] De-Acidify wine prior to bottling References: <002e01c87cb4$0d632ce0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C><005e01c87e09$f3401dd0$a949fea9@Lloyd><008a01c87e18$7d839770$a949fea9@Lloyd> Message-ID: HI Anthony: Not familiar with the brand Kalinat, but we carry potassium bi-carbonate, Acidex and Calcium Carbonate. Not sure if any of these helps you. We have shipping lots of items to the East Coast. You can visit our website for more info at vinestovintages.ca Natalie ----- Original Message ----- From: CanadaVintage To: growwine at littlefatwino.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 5:54 PM Subject: [Growwine] De-Acidify wine prior to bottling Anyone know who carries Kalinat on the East Coast? Anthony ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Growwine mailing list Growwine at littlefatwino.com http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080305/cd81c0b5/attachment.html From canadavintage at hotmail.com Wed Mar 5 13:13:50 2008 From: canadavintage at hotmail.com (CanadaVintage) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 10:13:50 -0800 Subject: [Growwine] 5 killed by sulphur fumes in Italy References: <002e01c87cb4$0d632ce0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C><005e01c87e09$f3401dd0$a949fea9@Lloyd><008a01c87e18$7d839770$a949fea9@Lloyd>

Message-ID: 5 killed by sulphur fumes in Italy Updated at: 1540 PST, Tuesday, March 04, 2008 ROME: Five people were killed by sulphur poisoning after breathing fumes from the tank of a truck they were cleaning in southern Italy, local news agency reported Tuesday. A first victim was overcome and blacked out inside the tank on Monday, according to a preliminary investigation. The other four, including the owner of the Truck Centre, an industrial truck cleaning company near Bari, entered the tank one-by-one to rescue the others, each in turn succumbing to the fumes. Four died on Monday and the fifth on Tuesday, agency reported -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080305/27128bae/attachment.html From khoshkiw at hotmail.com Wed Mar 5 11:32:31 2008 From: khoshkiw at hotmail.com (Kathryn Hoshkiw-Tombs) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 11:32:31 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] FW: For the chemists out there. In-Reply-To: <47CFD260.1000706@winefarmsystems.com> References: <002e01c87cb4$0d632ce0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C>

<47CFD260.1000706@winefarmsystems.com> Message-ID: > Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 06:15:44 -0500> From: dr.tom at winefarmsystems.com> To: khoshkiw at hotmail.com; canadavintage at hotmail.com; growwine at littlefatwino.com> Subject: Re: FW: [Growwine] For the chemists out there.> > Hi Anthony,> > just received the information about your little "dilemma".> Here are my comments:> > Considering the values you gave are accurate:> It is a bit unusual to have a higher TA while Tartaric Acid is below 1 g/l.> In order not to jeopardize the stability of your wine you should not further> lower the Tartaric Acid in your wine.> There will be always some malic acid left in your wine even after complete> MLF. Malic acid levels below 0.4 mg/l can be considered stable. There will> be hardly any further conversion happen here.> > What kind of wine is this anyway ? Some form of hybrid ?> Somehow the values do not fit together.> > Do not hesitate to contact me if you like to discuss it further.> > Best success !> > Dr. Tom> Thomas F. Schulz (Ph.D)> Winery & Viticulture Technician Program> Niagara College Canada> > Phone: (905) 641 2252 ext. 4081> Home: (905) 701 4401> cell/mobile : (905) 327 9150> e-mail: tschulz at niagarac.on.ca> please cc to: dr.tom at winefarmsystems.com> ..........................................................................> > Kathryn Hoshkiw-Tombs wrote:> > Hi Tom,> > > > I'm on the email list for the growwine run by Larry Patterson. > > Thought you might find this question interesting. It's an interesting > > email group made up of people from various backgrounds. Maybe you > > already know about it. If not I thought it might interest you and > > perhaps some of the students.> > > > Kathy> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------> > From: canadavintage at hotmail.com> > To: growwine at littlefatwino.com> > Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:05:12 -0800> > Subject: [Growwine] For the chemists out there.> >> > Gents,> > I have a dilemma to solve:> > A red wine of mine is showing a TA of 7.4 g/l, malic acid @ 330> > mg/l, and Tartaric @ 994.36 mg/l.> > pH is 3.2.> > > > How do I drop my TA down to say 5.4 g/l without having to wait> > months to bottle due to precipation crystals. Currently, my> > tartaric is quite stable.> > > > Also, the Malic conversion is partial and I am worried about> > instability in bottle if I do not use double salt?> > Should I hit it with free S02 at 40ppm and Lysozyme?> > > > Residual sugar at .17% so I cannot add sugar to mask acid bite.> > > > Options?> > KHCO3?> > CaCO3?> > or Double Salt?> > What about the newer method of Extended Double Salt Deacidification?> > > > > > thank-you> > Anthony> > > > > > > >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------> > _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080305/6de00ba0/attachment.html From khoshkiw at hotmail.com Wed Mar 5 11:33:48 2008 From: khoshkiw at hotmail.com (Kathryn Hoshkiw-Tombs) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 11:33:48 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Root Stock In-Reply-To: <005401c87ec7$1c7c50c0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> References: <005401c87ec7$1c7c50c0$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Message-ID: You need a rootstock that is not only going to match the vine but the physical and climatic properties of your land and what your growing style will be. So you need to know do you want increased or decreased vigor. Do you need disease resistance, meaning what is the history of your land. Do you need drought tolerance, etc. Lots of reasearch but will save you money and time in the long run especially if you end up having to do replants due to the wrong choices early on.> From: littlefatwino at trytel.net> To: growwine at littlefatwino.com> Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 08:44:59 -0500> Subject: [Growwine] Root Stock> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Walter Cartwright" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 4:43 PM> Subject: Root Stock> > > My wife and I are moving to Prince Edward County> Ontario, I will be planting grapes vines, I understand> that Pinot Nior are doing quite well there , what> sort of root stock should I look for, or other> verieties of vine .> many thanks > Walter > _______________________________________________> Growwine mailing list> Growwine at littlefatwino.com> http://lists.littlefatwino.com/mailman/listinfo/growwine _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.littlefatwino.com/pipermail/growwine/attachments/20080305/d3c52084/attachment.html From littlefatwino at trytel.net Wed Mar 5 12:02:27 2008 From: littlefatwino at trytel.net (Larry Paterson) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:02:27 -0500 Subject: [Growwine] Wine Trade Winds for February 2008 Message-ID: <000d01c87ee2$c2e67150$c6d1eb18@YOUR382F8BB83C> Forwarded with permission -