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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thank you guys for the answers!</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=markhart@hardygrapes.com href="mailto:markhart@hardygrapes.com">Mark
Hart</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=growwine@littlefatwino.com
href="mailto:growwine@littlefatwino.com">growwine@littlefatwino.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 31, 2008 7:56
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Growwine] Signification of
Elmer Swenson's grape name</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Carl,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>You are close on Elmer's numbering system. His is a fairly standard
system: block - row - position</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>So 6-16-30 means block six, row 16, vine 30 in that row.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>A couple things to note. Elmer never had an explicit block 1 (when
you start you think it will be the only block). So things that have only
two numbers separated by a dash, say 15-53 come from block 1. Now
occasionally you can find reference to a three numbered ES designation (#-#-#)
that starts with the number 1; that is done to confuse you. These
actually refer to the block 1 at the Univ. of MN Horticultural Research Center
where Elmer worked for a while. These selections came from the crosses
done in 1978 & 1979 by Patrick Pierquet - Elmer used a few of these
selections in his breeding and got them before they got formal numbers at the
U of MN and never changed his designation. Thus, ES 1-9-96 is actually MN
1022, and ES 1-16-126 is MN 1038 and ES 1-7-47 is MN 1047 (Frontenac).</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Some of his earliest selections were just referred to by seedling
numbers; ES 193, ES 414, etc.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Things get a little more complicated than that because only blocks 1
(unnamed), 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 were original blocks. Blocks 7 and above
were overplants in the original blocks. So block 7 was physically on the same
trellis as some of the rows in the earlier rows in block 3 where the seedlings
had been removed.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The 'block-row-position' system is the easiest for most breeders to use
because it carries the most useful meaning. Some breeders (including
myself and Cornell) use a 'cross year - cross number - selection within cross'
system (ex. NY 73.0136.17 = Noiret; 1973, cross 136, selection 17 within
cross) which indirectly carries information about the parentage, and masks
information about the selection's location (breeders are almost all a little
secretive).</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Mark Hart</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Aug 31, 2008, at 5:18 PM, Chateau Stripmine wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-stroke-width: 0">
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Nicholas</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=050390822-31082008><FONT face=Arial
size=2>One answer could be...just a number.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=050390822-31082008><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=050390822-31082008><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Actually Elmer used these numbers to keep track of his breeding
efforts. And he did a lot of that. I could send you an entire spreadsheet
(an incomplete list).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=050390822-31082008><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=050390822-31082008><FONT face=Arial
size=2>I think this is correct. The first number was the row. The second was
the cross. The third was the seedling in the cross. There were also earlier
crosses with numbers like ES 193 and ES 15-53</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=050390822-31082008><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=050390822-31082008><FONT face=Arial
size=2>BTW the hyphens are important. ES 1-2-98 and ES 12-9-8 are both
possible but different vines. Also ES 193 is not the same as ES
1-9-3</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=050390822-31082008><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=050390822-31082008><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Carl</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:growwine-bounces@littlefatwino.com">growwine-bounces@littlefatwino.com</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[<A
href="mailto:growwine-bounces@littlefatwino.com">mailto:growwine-bounces@littlefatwino.com</A>]<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></B>Nicholas
Carrière<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Sunday, August 31, 2008 3:59
PM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:growwine@littlefatwino.com">growwine@littlefatwino.com</A><BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[Growwine] Signification of Elmer
Swenson's grape name<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It might sound like a stupid question but does
anyone knows what the numbers after the "ES" in Elmer Swenson's grape
varieties mean (ex. ES 6-16-30)?<BR><BR>Thanks<BR><BR>Nicholas
Carrière<BR>Aylmer, Québec<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>No virus found in this incoming
message.<BR>Checked by AVG -<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="http://www.avg.com">http://www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 8.0.169 / Virus
Database: 270.6.14/1643 - Release Date: 8/30/2008 5:18 PM<BR></FONT></P>
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